Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Pricing methods revealed

8/10/15       
Johnson

I have 2 cabinet maker friends that revealed some insight into their pricing methods....quick and dirty for bid sets (plan only...no details)
$700 a foot for lowers, $700 a foot for uppers, $2100 a foot floor to ceiling
Paint or domestic hardwoods stain and cv.Price is finished delivered installed
Second one sais:
$140 a foot edgebanded frameless lower (x2 for upper and lower)
$150 a drawer (solid maple 5/8)
$40 each slide (tandem, includes installation of)
$20-30 sq.' doors and fronts
Hinges $7 (Blum soft close)
Plates $2 (Blum with cam)
Finish $120 a foot paint grade/$65 clear cv a foot (inside and out of cab
15% profit
Does not include install
Input? Here it comes....please go easy

8/10/15       #2: Pricing methods revealed ...
Johnson

I should say I'm in the Bay Area

8/11/15       #4: Pricing methods revealed ...
Price

$900 to $1100,a foot for lowers and uppers, finished,delivered and installed here in Northeast.

8/11/15       #6: Pricing methods revealed ...
D Brown

If you quote those prices you prolly won't take any work away from the other 2 cabinet makers .

8/12/15       #7: Pricing methods revealed ...
Chris

no one wants to share their methods of pricing?

8/13/15       #8: Pricing methods revealed ...
AJC

I price things much easier, if on 8.5 X 11 I print out one complete set and on my desk I have a postage scale...I weigh the pack and charge $12,000 per ounce for frameless and $15,000 per ounce framed

On D sized paper I charge double per ounce

I do pretty good, land approx 8% of all projects we quote....but we don't do any job costing so I can not tell you if we make any money

8/13/15       #9: Pricing methods revealed ...
Cabinetmaker

I met a father & son team at Anaheim trade show.

The father would put together an estimate and the son would figure out what he thought it should cost. They would then add the two numbers together and present it to the client.

8/13/15       #10: Pricing methods revealed ...
Johnson

Though I do appreciate dark sarcasm from time to time, I just thought others might be willing to reveal some quick and dirty pricing methods...generally for bid sets. They are vague and so should the pricing be.

8/17/15       #11: Pricing methods revealed ...
Mike Fuson

I developed my own system several years ago, it works well for me. I price per linear inch. Different rate for regular base, drawer stack, sink base, etc. For wall, length X height X the rate. Same for tall cabs. At the end I add a percentage depending upon which finish they have chosen.

8/17/15       #12: Pricing methods revealed ...
Johnson

...and, so. What is the breakdown? As I see it, we can only gain knowledge from sharing information. Apparently, pricing methods are a close guarded secret. Why? There's enough work to go around.
I used to work in Germany, and no one shared any info..price, methods, nada..nichts. Why the secrecy? I understand some guys calculate overhead, estimated time on a certain project, profit, loss...all very calculated...in the end, bid sets are vague and so those methods don't work. Cmon! We have to stay competitive right? Given, a small custom shop is different than say decorative specialties or the like.

8/17/15       #13: Pricing methods revealed ...
Mike Fuson

If you are referring to my reply, you asked for a method and that's what I gave you. When you get into numbers it will vary depending upon where you are. A kitchen in Tennessee for example will cost five times less that what it would in NYC.

8/17/15       #14: Pricing methods revealed ...
cabmaker

Wouldn't a more useful question be something like "How long does it take you to cut out, install slides and assemble a 3 drawer stack cabinet?

A corollary to that question might be:
"How did you effect the cut out?" or "How do you establish drawer slide locations?"
"How do you ensure the drawer slides situate 90º to the front of the cabinet?"

These are questions that would maybe shed light on the payback for a nested base CNC vs slider and construction hole drill. Another useful question would be what percentage of the job remains after the CNC has done it's part? We know that CNC makes a positive contribution but what problems does it bring to the table that didn't exist before?

This question is like the pricing survey Cabinetmaker Magazine used to trot out annually. As Mike said, prices don't mean anything without factoring in cost of living in your neighborhood.

Same thing goes for job costing. The purpose of job costing is to help you make more money in the future. Unless you have systems of manufacturing that produce predictable repetition it really doesn't matter how long something took to produce in the past. Same thing with pricing. When times are busy you raise your rates.

Better to focus on questions that will help you make more money in the future such as the best way to train, or pass out tasks or monitor status.

8/18/15       #15: Pricing methods revealed ...
Johnson

Thanks cabmaker, point taken. Mike, also, point taken...though Tennessee and nyc are sorta extreme examples. I did say I'm in the Bay Area. Used to live in Asheville nc. Compared to there labor is almost double..not 5 times. Nevertheless, thanks for not being snarky. I'm just trying to get a feel for what others in a comparable market are doing.

8/18/15       #16: Pricing methods revealed ...
Alan F.

Johnson,
are you trying to determine market price so you know what to sell at or are you trying to determine what it costs others?

If you want to know market price get bid results for jobs you bid. If you want to know what it costs others its not really relative.

The AWI used to have a cost book that was like a mechanics labor book, complete methods of pricing by operation.

Until you know what it costs your shop to make something you don't know what price to sell for. Using a simplified method like footage ignores some things that need to be accounted for. Assume 12' of base drawer over a door. You could do 3 4' cabinets or 12 one foot cabinets, the labor is drastically more, the footage doesn't change. the square footage of fronts doesn't change. The length of the top doesn't change.

If you are going to unit price you need to spend some time analyzing the difference and know what to add for the deviations
A-

8/19/15       #17: Pricing methods revealed ...
Mike Fuson

I'll throw this in for good measure. The first thing you've got to figure out is how much overhead you have and divide it it up per month or week or day, ever what... Keep track of every board foot and every sheet of everything that goes in it and see what it looks like you made in the end. One thing for sure, if you're not making enough money it won't take long to figure out that you need to raise prices.

8/19/15       #18: Pricing methods revealed ...
Johnson

Thanks all. I am trying to determine what others are doing for estimating and stay competitive. The whole argument about whats your overhead, etc doesn't make much sense to me. For instance, If I worked out of a garage in the middle of nowhere, have no license, insurance, and borderline machinery Im probably cheaper than most if I calculate my jobs that way. If I charge close to what others are charging then its beneficial to other shops as I'm not undercutting. I would also be benefitting as I can charge more. I'm specifically interested in how other shops are pricing bid sets with little to no info. Many times the bids I lose go to big cab companies in the mid east or far away. The big boys can of course charge less because they are cranking the parts out. I have a 2 man shop and do about 3-4 kitchens a year, many built-ins, media units, tables, etc. Thanks

8/19/15       #19: Pricing methods revealed ...
Mike Fuson

Johnson, if you don't understand "the argument of overhead" then you need to. This is business and every business has overhead that has to be covered. If you have very little and price competitive then you keep more money, if you have a lot of overhead you may have to price so high to make any money that you can't stay afloat. It's important.

8/23/15       #20: Pricing methods revealed ...
Kris  Member

Website: http://www.CustomCabinetPro.com

Here is how I do it. Keep in mind, it takes years and lots of record keeping for ANYONE to develop a fairly accurate estimating scheme... Everything costs money, and you need to know where every dollar is going in your product. It's an ever evolving process. It all starts with overhead. How much does it cost an hour to run your shop? Each shop is different. This is your shop rate. Once you know your shop rate, then you need to keep track of how long it takes you to do certain tasks... building drawers / doors, cutting out cabinet components, assembling them, planing, joining, ripping, driving to and from the job sites, install, finish, design, etc, etc. Again... it takes many jobs to dial this in.

So... here is how I estimate. I need rough dimensions from the client. I calculate lineal feet of base, lineal feet of uppers. These numbers go in the computer. This price is the cost of building a box with a faceframe and doors. I then have line items that I add to these numbers... these include drawers (deep and shallow separate), trash / spice pullouts, lazy susans (or any other add on item in a cabinet), end panels, large plywood panels, island panels, feet of crown molding, feet of toekick, type of finish, install, and a few other items I can't grab off the top of my head. All these numbers get added up then I get two prices. One would be for an overlay kitchen, the other would be for inset. Now for the most important thing... I add for PROFIT, this isn't what I make (all salaries are part of my overhead), it's what the shop makes. This money is used to purchase new equipment, upkeep of old equipment, or weathering the storm come december / january.

Everyone prices differently, because everyone is in a different situation, in different sized shops, creating different products...

8/24/15       #21: Pricing methods revealed ...
guy

time for me to move average here is only 110 a foot for alder face frame finished and installed


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello