Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Why would 5mm shelf pins have a "bulge" in them that make them hard to use?

6/12/19       
Matt

Good day folks,

I'm asking this question directly to Richelieu but I'm also wanting to ask you guys. Can anyone say specifically why a manufacturer would make these shelf pins with an intentional step-up in the pin diameter right near the edge of the plate?

If you look at the CAD drawing (uploaded here but also in that link below), these have an intentional step-up from 4.9mm to 5.25mm right near where the pin would settle into it's "fully inserted" position.

We bought a pile of these unwittingly thinking they were the same as every other 5mm shelf pin we've ever seen and have been scratching our heads as to why we have such a ridiculous time getting these pins to seat in place.

Admittedly their CAD drawing shows this step-up, we just didn't notice it. I would have never thought in a million years to look at a CAD drawing for a simple angled shelf pin. So mainly out of curiosity we'd like to know why that step-up is even there. It makes the shelf pin hard as hell to insert.

https://www.richelieu.com/us/en/category/furniture-equipment/furniture-
shelf-pins/metal-shelf-pin/angle-metal-shelf-clip/1015308/sku-5834180


View higher quality, full size image (1008 X 854)

6/12/19       #2: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Dan

They're not 5mm. 7/32" is closer if you don't want to tap them in.

6/13/19       #3: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
DS

It seems logical to me, frankly I'm surprised they put this much thought into a shelf pin.
Slightly less diameter to make it easier to initially place into the hole, and broader as it goes in to help seat it into place. If you were to try an insert a 5mm pin into a 5mm hole in metal, the reasoning would be much more evident.

6/13/19       #4: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Matt

Dan, those are definitely sold as 5mm shelf pins, not 7/32".

DS, I agree that I'm also surprised they put that much thought into it, but my experience has been that these really are only a good product for use on plywood. If you try to shove these pins into Melamine casework, it's far more difficult than it should be. Usually we require a mallet to tap them in, and the end-user is definitely not going to like that when they buy the jumbo size box of Rice Crispies that won't fit between the shelves.

I've never found these angled shelf pins (with straight 4.9mm pegs) to have ever been insufficient. That 5.25 stepup just seems like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, causing problems that require a solution that ends up being "buy someone else's product".

6/13/19       #5: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Dan

Sorry, I was being lazy and giving short response.
We received some of these by accident once and concluded that they will not go into 5 mm hole without strain.
The pin is a variation within a series of "L-shaped" shelf supports, many of which are "sleeved".
This one gets its 20kilo/shelf (vs 15) rating by being oversized but needs to be forced into a 5 mm hole making it not very suitable for adjustment by an end user.
I think if you called Richelieu on the 5mm part they'll say "you just need to tap them in". We took them back.

6/14/19       #6: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Alan F. Member

It looks like they sent you pins designed for 1/4" holes.
I guess there is a demand for 1/4" holes for people that don't have metric tooling.

Angle Metal Shelf Clip

6/14/19       #7: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Gerry

They sold 2 versions of this same support with 5mm pin at 1 time and they required different clearance allowances. It is a very poor design and they do not allow the angle to sit tight against the cabinet gable.

They are a 5mm pin but there is a shoulder on the pin against the plate that prevents the pin from going in all the way. It looks like the pin is pressed into a dye after insertion in the angle bringing it to final dimension and leaving a shoulder to prevent it from backing out of the hole?


View higher quality, full size image (1280 X 1024)

6/14/19       #8: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Gerry

Here is another version showing the shoulder more clearly.


View higher quality, full size image (1280 X 1024)

6/17/19       #9: Why would 5mm shelf pins have a &qu ...
Matt

Dan, thanks for your reply. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one that thinks this isn't a good idea.

Gerry, you may be onto something. That shoulder may be exactly what you're talking about---- where the peg is pressed into the angle bracket, holding it in place.

I appreciate everyone's help. I'm surprised I've not encountered this sort of thing before, it seems to be more common than I would have predicted. I'm being told Richelieu doesn't even sell an "angle bracket" type shelf pin that doesn't have this collar. They have plenty of spoons and plenty of plastic/metal pin hybrids but not the angle bracket style.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello