I'm guessing they use the SW white laquer. Not that durable. Its only benefit is it sprays easily, drys very fast, and is cheap.

The prep is the key. House painters in general don't do it. By the time they get to a reasonable level of quality its usually more cost effective to have a shop spray them.

Adam makes a good point; before trying to do it yourself look around for custom finish shop in your area. odds are they can can do the job faster, better and cheaper than you or the local painters. I know because as a custom finish shop owner I do those exact things every working day. It's a lot easier to get a top quality finish with a clean heated spray booth & drying room, the best tools money can buy, quality finishes and years of experience than none of the above.

Don't use precatalzed lacquer. Very susceptible to cold cracking if you don't spray factory recommended film thickness, and not nearly as durable as the say around dishwasher and stove.

However many responses you get to this that is how many different answers you will get. Even the guys that use the same products will tell you different spray equipment or application procedures. I've been finishing for 16 years now, running my own finish room for 15 and my sales reps often tell me without prompting I'm their most knowledgeable client concerning finish and I either can't follow a great many conversations or think they are crazy. As someone with no experience you have to narrow your parameters drastically or your head will continue to spin.

First and foremost, water or solvent based? If it's solvent, it's generally easier and more folks can help you but it takes the upfront costs associated with spraying flammable materials and figuring out how to blow yourself up. Water takes generally more steps to achieve slightly less quality, but that is changing every year.

Pick one before you even ask for help. Then since you are only doing white paintgrade ask for material and spray application gun recommendaitons.
Finally, a detailed finish schedule-a point by point recipe detailing how that got from A to Z.

Information, like woodweb, is only useful if it's in a format that allows you to discern what is useful and applicable. Your question is too open ended to get you further answers than what you've already read.

Leo
yes im actually calling them tomorrow...and we already have an account with them but i had no idea until yesterday they offered such things!

-Adam
SW in my are doesnt tint lacquer, but i have a list of 3 suppliers now ill be following up with on monday. The painters used only latex enamel paint, including pro classic....with poor results so far. theyre decent painters too.

Nick
I would love to have a finishing shop do it for me but...my boss is fairly insistent we at least make an attempt in house- he used to finish as a kid and i think its sentimental for him ,so...im sure ill be back here asking for advice on spraying unfortunately...

Family Man
Ive settled on waterborne. Any idea where i might be able to find a detailed point by point schedule and recipe?

Just want to thank all of you for helping me...this is a large amount to take in, but ive made a career out of getting in over my head! Thats ok though, ive learned so much by having to bail my own ass out!

Sorry, I'm a solvent based guy. My last attempt at WB was 14 years ago using both Target and SW products. Neither was great at that time but a poor imitation at best. But they've come a long way. I'd make sure your guy you are learning from is WB proficient as it's a completely different set of chemistry, application procedures and spray equipment requirements. Good luck

Pierre,

You've stumbled across one of the best source of information on finishing available. Do searches on the WW Knowledge base. You can find your answers there. We've gone over it many times.

Adam...learning from...?? lol
im self taught. ill learn this same way i learned to make cabinets...youtube and woodweb. just hope i can do a decent job on this present set of cabinets. you guys have been helpful already

Pierre, I came here many many moons ago and asked questions like you. Now I'm finishing like a pro

Hi Pierre....are you from Quebec ??
If so or near, let me know, I may help you with supplier sources & info on "good" quality waterbase prod as I've been using ( & tried) most if not all through my 18yr in this !!....
Bottom line, as said.....and to some it up in my words & opinion....
Nothing if absolute and there's is no certainty, BUT....there is good & less good prods out there !!
Nothing beets experience & testing.....so you may be in a position to set / tailor all variable to suit your set up & desired output !!....but yes, some of us can lead you / steer you to "minimize" wrong steps !

All the best, Robert

Do you a have a Richelieu dealer near you? they generally have finish specialist assigned to each territory that will help you nail down a product..... They tailor to smaller shops and carry a variety of finishing lines solvent & water.... A rep will come out and help you test applications.... they are a Canadian company as well as having territories in the US.

Pierre, never forget to prepare very well your wood. If you do not a very nice wood preparation, any finish will look bad.

Robert
No im right on the Massachusetts/Rhode Island border in the U.S. But thank you for the offer.

Shane
I met with a rep from ML Campbell today. He came out to my shop and spent a couple of hours with me and we really covered alot of material.
He suggested a product called Agualente Plus
(its a waterborne lacquer if youre not familiar) after looking at our needs and wants.
I ordered a few gallons for a current project.
Because this is all very new tome ive asked him to make a couple of suggestions for spray equipment, as we have nothing. One is a gravity fed cup gun, and the other an air assisted airless system. Not sure of the pros and cons of each yet though.

The AAA is going to be much more expensive. But it's the way to go if you plan on doing this more than every once in a while.

You'll still need some HVLP guns to shoot stain. I rarely wipe stain on anymore, almost always put it into the gun and spray it onto the wood.

The speed at which a AAA applies the coatings and the fact that very little thinning is required because you can just up the pressure on thicker materials makes it all worth the money.

I got a Kremlin 10:14 and it paid for itself in the first job I did. I had always sprayed each part and then assembled the cabinet. Now I just spray the assembled cabinets.

A CAT AAA seems to spray waterborne better than a Kremlin. But Kremlin came out with a new AAA because of that, so I'm not sure if it's true still.

Pierre
MLC is pretty good
That's all i use(solvent based)
If you are not going with an AAA
I suggest you get a pressure pot system
Gravity guns are okay but you may want to invest in one so that you can spray stains if needed
AAA pump are for production work
It sprays fast!
If you do go with MLC,CA technology can help you on a spray system
However you really need to educate yourself on how to prep your projects
There's a lot of things you need to watch for
Good luck
Don't hesitate to ask any questions

Hi Pierre,

We are located in Stonington, CT.
Atlantic Plywood has been our dist of MLC for almost 20 years. Excellent service. I've been using the various versions of Aqualente since it came out in Mid 2000's. Its an excellent product. Its an excellent choice.

Now with your finishing protocol.
Soft Maple for paint grade cabinets. Skip the poplar(trim only).

Don't fill an holes or defects.

1. sand 150 grit.
2. prime with the amazing Aqualente primer
3. drive down to the UBS in Westerly, RI.
4. buy a can of Muralo Professional Spackle.
5. fill any defects.
6. sand 240 grit
7. spray first topcoat
8. sand 320 grit
9 spray 2nd topcoat

find a good beer and enjoy your work.

Adam

I like the way you think!
But...
Even though Stonington/Westerly is a wonderful area and i love visiting the area, how much better is that Muralo spackle? Ive used stuff off the shelf from depot, SW, etc. just for reference.
Also, the first set of cabinets im about to spray is already made....with poplar. I think ill go with maple for next. Can i still get a nice job with poplar?
Thanks for the finishing protocol...very helpful!
Also...
if i DID find myself in Westerly, ...where might one find a good place for a beer?

If I were you I would plan on investing at the minimum a CAT H20 15:1 AAA pump setup...... get the wall mounted unit and build your own roll around cart if you need to be mobile around the shop or mount it inside a cabinet to keep a clean looking setup.
CAT H20 pump with Cougar gun and their fine finish tips
Tips for Primers:
36-715 (14" fan) and 36-415 (8" fan)
Tips for topcoats :
36-713 for most top coats 14" wide fan pattern for wide stuff and 36-413 8" wide fan for the smaller stuff
order a wet mill gauge or ask ml cambell rep to give you a few of the cheap ones they give out and learn how to lay down a consistent wet pass of 4-6 mills for primers and 3-4 wet mills for topcoats.
cleaning an AAA rig is like a dream compared to other equiptment..... flush well soon as your done and its ready for the next session.
Sand 150 grit raw wood
fill defects with body filler (Bondo)
one round of primer.. preferably box coated from multiple directions at 5 wet mills.... Let dry a few hours (The spec sheet is a bit exaggerated on waterbornes 30 min my @ss...)
Scuff sand with medium 3m block sponge till smooth
fill any remaining small defects with 3m green acryl spot putty (green helps you see the defect properly sanded but you can use the white if your worried about color transparency)
Another round of primer same as before
dry a few hours
Now properly sand with 320-400 sponges or a felt block backed with stearated finish sanding paper.
Blow off/clean dust free...
One round of topcoats at 3-4 mills wet
Done....
I'd rather have perfect primer and prep than having to prep over topcoats.
sanding waterborne topcoats never works as well and scratches show really well... get your surface perfect and topcoat once!
pump pressures 30-35 psi fluid and air pressure 20-30 psi
Keep your equipment spotless and clean clean clean... clean your gun inlet screen every time you flush and wipe doen your pickup tube.... remove the tip and clean the backside of it out.... always soak your tips in a jar clean and ready to use for next time.... I use polychem acrastrip 1:1 with water after clean flushes to keep in the lines to keep the pump/lines perfectly clean... pump it out and in between each session.... start up.. pump out polychem... clean water rinse... pump in paint... finished? pump out paint... flush flush flush with clean water changed out... clean screens/inlet hose and tips... pump in polychem... repeat at next session... flawless logic... equipment is always ready... 2 hours later or next month.. period.. nothing worse than dealing with fiddling with dirty equipment when your trying to spray..
strain everything... everything with a fine cone strainer.. waterborne always has solid crap in it.. especially primer... it will clog your screen and tips...
if you get into doing stains/clears start another topic.... that's a whole different animal with some extra skills and additional equipment..

Hi Pierre,

I have sprayed MLC Agualante products for well over 10 years now. I have used the CAT 14:1 AAA with a Bobcat gun for about 8 years. I sprayed with the CPR guns before that. Biggest difference is volume. CPR process just too slow for my needs. Evaluate YOUR needs before you buy. It will save you a lot of money.

Both are products are available through my supplier.

I have been very pleased with both. The added plus is my supplier has provided great support for both products and has done an excellent job tinting.

All this is important, because waterborne can be very frustrating until you LEARN how to use it. CAT is just a quick phone call away and there techs really know their equipment. The MLC Rep always responds immediately if you have to leave a message. And the two companies work together. Go to the CAT site and they have charts for the MLC products and give you settings to use for your equipment, recommended tip size, and the viscosity for the finish. Start there.

As Shane mentioned the suggested drying time before sanding is nuts. Especially with the new PLUS. I wait an hour minimum between coats of primer and that's pushing it. I let second coat dry over night and it provides a very smooth surface for a top coat. I agree prepping the primer is much easier than sanding between top coats, but I still spray two top coats. I use the SurfPrep sander between coats and it makes it much easier.

I can't speak for the Cougar gun. Except it is bigger and I think it feels much better in my hand. But I have two Bobcats and they spray great. If the tips the Cougar uses are the same as the tips used by the Bobcat, I suggest you follow CAT's recommended tips sizes first. They recommend the .409F. The F has the pre-atomizer in the tip for waterborne and it makes a big difference. I have used the .411F and .413F, but the flow is very fast and you really have to move to avoid sagging and pooling. At least for me. And with the new MagnaMax H20, I use a .407F. Have to since it is very thin right out of the can and runs very easy. But it is a great Poly. It's clear with a sight amber tint.

My biggest suggestion. Training, Practice and PATIENCE. After that you'll love waterborne.
Shane's suggestion of Cleaning is an excellent recommendation. I have found most of my problems in the past had to do with failure to clean correctly.

yes... always the fine finish tips with "F" designation...... It wouldn't hurt to start with smaller orfice but I've found that if your choking the paint down too much with a smaller tip... A. your applying material too slow. B. your having to make another pass to truly get a good wet mil target laid down.... this multiplies the effect of getting air trapped in your coating by recoating and forcing material out of the orfice at higher pressures.... if you get the hang of it with bigger tips youll have an advantage
getting material at just the right thickness quickly with minimal fluid/sir pressure the topcoats will lay out much smoother and the risk of microbubbles/air entrapment and shearing effects are much less a problem with waterbournes... obviously applying too much material is bad as well... it's definitely a feel thing... you also need to learn to shoot it and put it out of the way... waterborne looks like crap until it shrinks back 30-45 min later its starts to look right...

Well since your cabinets are already poplar I would use Zinnser white shellac based primer to seal in any sap wood. Poplar can/will bleed through and you won't be happy doing on site touch up.

I wouldn't jump into the deep end with a AAA system right off the bat. A couple of decent gravity hvlp guns and/or a pressure pot with suffice. At it won't cost you $2G's.

pay once cry once....... It will pay for itself in overspray savings after the first month. Not to mention the cost of cleaning cup guns and pressure pots if you ever choose to do a solvent finish...... trust me pay up front and never look back..... Pressure pots are literally 1950 cabinet shop equipment......Most waterborne averaging over $60+ a gallon? pressure pots and spray guns literally have a 30-40% transfer efficiency at best? AAA if it's set up correctly 80+% transfer efficiency... The paint savings alone adds up... you do the math... for every gallon of paint at $60 that's 36$ going onto the floor/booth filters or in the air....topcoating with a cup gun is for the bumper respray guys....

[.topcoating with a cup gun is for the bumper respray guys.] Really shane? Funny how all those super high end car finishes are applied with gravity feed guns.

You're telling a guy a complete novice to jump in with both feet AND his wallet for something he may or may not want or be able to do "efficiently" or profitably? Not to mention the AAA system in the wrong hands is like a garden hose. Real quick way to set you back a day or two fixing all your sags. There's this old saying crawl walk run. Think about it.

Don't ever buy the Bondo brand. If you need it buy a light weight polyester body filler from an autobody shop like NAPA. 3m only makes good products. NAPA microlight is really good. We might use it for a screw hole or a gouge every once in a while. You need to let is cure overnight while it shrinks.

I try to use as little body filler as possible. The difference in hardness between it and the wood is massive. It typically telegraphs thru the topcoat.

The whole point of wb is to not use solvents. So why use puttys and fillers that are solvent based?

The Muralo(Cali paints) pro spackle is totally different. The Muralo guys have always made the original Spackle.

That spackle matches the hardness of the Aqualente primer exactly. The single coat of primer and spackle will finish 90% of what you are trying to accomplish.

I often get the chore of making & finishing applied moulding doors. There are 1000 pin holes right in your face. You wouldn't be able to find them. On those jobs we do a 1st coat of primer/spackle then a 2nd coat to bury everything.

You can't see 320 grit scratches. Doesn't matter if its wb or 2k marine grade poly. 240 are obvious.

The Agualente primer has stain blocker. I wouldn't worry about the green/purple. We use light years(many miles) of it for trim.

Call around for the local Muralo(Cali paints) dealer. Their Ultra acrylic trim paint is the best you can buy.

Wow, What a phenomenal thread.

We have been spraying WB for about 8 years now. Used MLCampbell post cat WB (agubarnice? cant remember) til they dropped our area, then Sherwin industrial wih KemAqua and Sayerlack AF72 until Sherwin pretty much bailed on the area and were shipping pails of material on pallets that when the common carrier opened the door were leaking all of the floor because the bottoms blew out over a bump. Then moved to General for a while, then on to Target 9300 for a long while (very nice material). And now are back to MLCampbell after a local body shop took on the line and are spraying the waterborne 2K C119254 Aguatana almost exclusively but filling in on lower end stuff that can take the amber with the new Maganamax H20.

No one can ever argue to spend your money once but we are still not running AAA. We have no availability to outsource finishing but our market is very varied. My personal business mindset is to support local distribution unless completely impossible (thats what I hope of my own customers) which is why we moved back to MLCampbell after they basically screwed us from Target.

Our decision to stay WB is that the planet on the whole is moving in that direction so in my mind its better to be ahead of the curve regardless of your exposure. Given the global consensus is that future wars will be waged over access to water Im not sure waterborne is the long term solution but it will likely finish out my time here.

Surface prep and getting it as best as you can prior to topcoat is some of the best information I have read though I can honestly say I have never experienced the luxury of a single top coat clear that shane speaks of but we also more commonly do stain/natural finish so we dont have the prime and pigment coats to cover the de-nib. We never seem to get the build on a single clear topcoat to be one and done so its always a two coat top coat with a de-nib.

Man, reading this, I would honestly say if Shane or any of the others on here ever opted to have a 3 day weekend workshop/spray training.. in my world you could about name your price and I'd be in.

I will say the ML Campbell water borne 2K is by far the best clear we have sprayed in WB and even though its twice the money we are guaranteed 2 coat finish and the stuff is hard as a rock. The build is amazing. We run a lot of 2 coat clear over raw hard maple and its like glass. Its 2x the money per gallon but as mentioned, if you have to go back a single time youll roast the cost of the material in a blink.

Mark,

I was impressed with the Agaubarnice 2k back in 2007. Light years ahead of anything I had used at that point.

I will occasionally use it for things like counter tops. Are you aware that it has isocyanates in the hardener? That's what gives it the bombproof hardness.

I always change out my respirator filters after using that stuff. It might be overkill or it might be worth it to call MLC.

They use a similar system for the really durable Bona flooring finish. Its safe because its not aerosolized.

Like most of the above, I suggest you spend the cash and buy an AAA system. Kremlin gets touted as "the best" by many and the ones I've used were very, very good.

However, I've used several CA Technologies AAA systems and they are likewise good-- I have one that is about 13 years old and it's only been rebuilt once, maybe twice.

The Cougar gun is excellent, and is my preference.

As for paints, learn how to use conversion varnish from the get-go if you want to spray solvent based. I prefer Sherwin Williams Kemvar Plus, it's crazy thick, allows you to reduce it as little/much you want, and the Kemvar Reducer is likely the only reducer you'll need for it, we almost never have to make multi-thinner cocktail.

I don't know how strict the fire marshall is in your area but you might want to consider inviting him over for coffee and donuts to talk turkey ahead of time--- in most locations that puts you on their good side, which is a very good thing.

If you are going waterbased, that's probably not quite as big of a deal.

just remember the internet is full of experts. everyone's a genius in their own mind and their opinion is law.
That being said I see quite a bit of advice on this forum that is bad advice at times. These guys believe it because that's what they done all these years , figured out on their own or had access to.
Some of these guys giving advice have sprayed less than 250 gal. of coating in their life and build hobby craft cabinetry..

I'll say this because I've lived it..... yes for a small shop an AAA is absolutely a better price point.... yes it's a 2K investment. example? a good HVLP cup gun setup is absolutely going to run you $600 minimal for something that's going to be good enough to spray and tough enough to last.... buy a cheaper gun? sure... you'll be buying another in a couple years... boom there's $1200.. oh wanna switch colors and clean less on that cup gun? dekups or pps? boom a couple hundred to supply up for your first supply... oh wait? wanna go pressure pot aye? ok price a stainless steel pot with dual regulators lately? oh want a built in agitator? $800-1200... oh you need a good hvlp gun to go on the end? $600... hoses? $60... pot liners to keep it clean? $200 for a case...
anyone feel me yet?
buy once... cry once and have the correct tools for the job. if you crawl before you run you will be essentially spending 3X and won't see your quality jump for several years while you play with the budget minded mentality..
But hey what do I know I'm just a keyboard internet genius in my own mind.
20+ years of actual full time finishing... and responsible for applying coatings to 40-60 million dollars worth of woodwork yearly and not some flea market hobby master.
I'm literally going through over 300 gal. of coating chemicals per week... I might have just a little insight on what I'm advising to do...
so take my advice or leave it.... your money and your time...

I have to agree about buying the best equiptment for spraying finishes. Its the only thing you see in the end no matter how good or bad the cabinets are built.
But if money is an issue start with a HVLP quality gun and the PPS system, easy clean and change over for clear or pigment great for small job 5-10 doors couple cabinets. Any more and yes the AAA is the way to go, beautiful finish. a little more clean up, but we have 2 , one for clear, one for pigment. We are a 3 man shop but our finish has brought us many jobs. Its never overnight, lots of good info to weed thru here, a journey that is never finished. No pun intended.

Adam,
Yes; absolutely more issues with the 2k. Full gear without a doubt. Thankfully at the rate I spray (likely a snails place compared to you all) and with some positioning/setup 99% of it goes immediately into the filters and nearly nothing hanging in the air. May not be the best indicator but the tear offs on my mask last a very long time.

more than one way to skin a cat Bart...... I can hold my own when it comes to my profession. I can also say it's nice to have the best tools to work with but not always entirely necessary. I can also take any solvent or waterborne coating and spray out test panels with the best AAA I have and take a $20 harbor freight cup gun and do the same set....... After curing down you would not be able to tell which panel I sprayed with which gun.... Each tool will have a specific way that it needs adjusting for fluid & air..... The same coating will need tailored a bit for each tool and atmosphere at the time of laying down the coating...... It's not always the tools... Experience will play an important role... of course the Harbor freight cup gun is only going to last through a few cleanings/bumps/bruises before it goes in the trash...
So go ahead and make yourself look good and try to bash my attitude about giving sound advice. I still sleep good at night and actually enjoy what I do because I'm passionate about it...

Hello I totally agree with Shane. I'm using the the Kremlin 15-25 AAA pump for SW Kem Aqua plus and the smaller 10-18 pump for the shellac based bin primer. I really like the Xcite gun
Just like Shane commented on that can spend $ on a good Hvlp gun, 3m cups, liners and SS pressure pot and by that time you could have purchased a AAA pump. C.A. Technologies AAA pump offers great value and easy/economical to rebuild. Bonus is very minimal overspray and ease of cleanup

And you're still going to need a couple of gravity guns for shooting stain and touch up or small jobs anyways on top of the AAA your pushing. So your not gonna save your money by jumping straight into a AAA. He can get a decent gravity gun for $2-300 and a cheap $50-75 one for stains plus a 2quart pressure pot system for $400ish which will get him on a path with out too much skin in the game. And as you point out in the end if he does it right will look just fine.

done

Bart....I guess you've never experienced the monotony of shooting a bookcase or built in with a cup gun...... The blowback and overspray alone would drive me to sell my own car and buy an AAA rig for the company so I could finish the job without it taking an hour to spray it out and in the end feel like a piece of 80 grit from the overspray..... Have fun... there's a better way.... oh by the way the topic is based on opaque waterbornes... not stain seal clear..... he's going to need a stainless pressure pot with an hvlp gun at the least...or it will be flash rusting the next day.... yummy for white cabinets. Good equipment is not cheap... why not just go ahead and go the right way... It shoots more material faster and atomizes like a dream.... Do you use the butter knife in your kitchen drawer to turn all your slotted screws? Sure it will work but is it the most cost effective and efficient.... probably not...
I'm done... clearly your male anatomy is larger as well as your grey matter Sir....

To the O.P...... take anyone's advise with a grain of salt and choose your own path... Make it yours.... success is not made without failure.

Mastercabin have you used a AAA?
Always different from the non users lol

Never ceases to amaze me- cabinetmakers it's frameless vs framed, or making your own doors vs purchasing which makes you a true craftsman. Finishers it is something different. I'm sure most on here would not approve of our finishing process of using conventional airless guns...and you know what I don't care! There are lots of ways to get a job done. Find one that works for you. If you've been doing this long and you haven't tweaked something to someone else procedures you're probably brain dead. Different materials, different application guns, different application environments, different products we are applying to with different prep work done to them usually with different wrapping, shipping and transportation weather. If you can't change something for the better you can't think.

OP I've got news for you. You're going to screw up. You're going to cuss. You're going to go home at least once looking like the paint gun won the battle and your kids will laugh at you. Should you get discouraged? Hell no, now you are finally getting some street cred as a professional finisher. Good luck and may your first screw up not cost you thousands!

@brewster

I have use an AAA
Really like it!
I most likely will invest in one of them if I get a large job
For now I'm just using a pressure pot/cup sprayer
I'm not a full time finisher
And I think the OP is in the same position

$1700-2000 is the starting point for a CAT rig with one tip(according to spraygunworld.com)

Pierre is just starting out. He hasn't sprayed paint. He's a finish carpenter that builds some cabinets.

He is trying to fill a void. The guys that could,should, or would paint his cabinets can't or are not up to the task.

He may spray one cabinet and never do it ever again. He may hate it or realize its a waste of his time or not economical.

Encouraging someone to spend $2k when they can buy a decent Astro(Starr)gravity gun for $130 delivered. As long as he has a decent compressor. They work as well as a Binks gun. They don't fall apart. They are really good guns.

Most of us know the difference between AAA, gravity guns, pressure pots.

I still have my old ones and spray all kinds of odd ball stuff out of them. You can spray waterborne finishes all day every day out of an aluminum 2 quart pressure pot. Accuspray used to sell them as complete rigs with their turbines

We switched to AAA many years ago.

I hate to say it but in Pierre's line of a work a Graco airless sprayer with a fine tip might get used more. Shane would be happy. They shoot paint faster than you can fill the bucket.

Since I received so much flack for sharing my opinion why someone starting out should just jump right to AAA , I made a little video of just how hard it is to setup/shutdown a paint rig. The process started clean and I go through my particular technique of getting paint in the system and out. all the while being able to shut this pump down as long as I want.. hours, days, months, years and the next time it's used it will be ready to go. Enjoy my goofy self making a video and showing you how to start with a clean pump... get it dirty.... flush it properly and have it idle till next use. This is why I recommend AAA... it's super easy to prep.. finish quality is extremely excellent.... clean up is a breeze. The End...

Good Job Shane.

Exactly why I no longer use my CAT CPR PPS guns. They where great, but the AAA setup works so much better for me.

And with waterborne material, flush is with water.

So Ill come form a little different angle. Ive been spraying 100% WB for the last 13 years. Used every major brand I can get shipped to me, and here is where ive ended up as far as a spray rig.

In the beginning I took the type of advice that said to get a pressure pot and a gravity gun. Which I did, and they were good to learn with. But I knew it was slow and pots, while simple are a pain in the ass if you have to deal whith them every day. I already had a nice airless from the days of old when we were blowing solvent lacquer on everrything, so set it all up for spraying WB. Super fast, super good results, no fuss. But super wasteful. Ive been drooling at AAA rigs for a long time, but im a total poorboy so I never pulled the trigger on one. Plus in slow seasons there might be a whole month where I dont spray at all. Recently Ive had a lot of drama in regards to a couple WB primers, so I thought it might be time to look into something better.

Last year I read a thread from a guy here who was running a couple of Dual Diaphragm Pumps for WB and was really convinced this was a great option. Looking to fix the problems I had, I started to consider this as an option for me. Last month I found a great deal on an Anest Iwata DDP 120 diaphragm pump on ebay, so I winged it, made the guy a low offer, and ended up getting the pump. This was a total shot in the dark, but six weeks later im glad I did it. Im easily using 25-30% less material than I was, I bought an Iwata HTE spray gun that is giving a nice spray pattern, I can do material and fluid changes just like with a AAA or Airless which is way better than cleaning pots and cups. Im still getting used to it, but for about 1,000 dollars I was able to set up something pretty nice that has better speed and gives me the material savings I was looking for.

Now that being said, I still use my gravity gun a whole lot for things like making samples, when I only have one cabinet to finish, a few sticks of molding ect... Different tools for different Jobs

absolutely a double diaphragm setup could be used as well... long as you have a good fluid pressure regulator to help keep things consistent with no " Wink" or it will certainly show up in your finish coats...

Wow. So much stuff to sort through. Just a few things. Ive been in the field for the last week and its been hectic . Thank you to all who have offered advice.

Some notable replies.

Shane- Its apparent by what you've said that you are a pro and know your stuff. I can understand getting passionate about what you do and why you do it as i am quite similar in that regard. I also appreciate that you took the time to make and upload a video.

Adam- I appreciate your advice and perspective. What you say makes sense to me and I feel like you have an accurate take on my situation.

Family Man- I couldnt agree with you more. As a naturally philosophical fellow myself I often think and speak exactly as youve pointed out...I AM going to screw up...royally! Hell I still screw up the things I actually have alot of experience at! But...I aint gonna let that stop me from biting off more than i can chew!

All of you, really are doing me a great favor here. Really alot of whats being said here is still a bit over my head, especially regarding tips, specs, etc. What the hell is a .409 anyway??? I have MUCH to learn yet. I feel like everyone is trying to help a stranger out and offering the best advice you have to give. Thank you all.

Now, heres the latest.
The MLC rep has quoted me two different spray systems.

One is a " CAT X deluxe gravity gun PPS cup" for about $700.00

The other is a " H2O cougar cart mount outfit" for about $2,700.00

Still not sure what the right play is here, but im giving it serious thought.

I dont know if ive made it obvious yet but, being able to quickly change gears from building 5- 15 face frames and doors, to painting them, then maybe being out of the shop fr a few weeks, then back in shop for a day or two, then maybe in the field for a week followed by a month of shop work which agan inclides a mix of finishing and building would be fairly typical for our situation. Not to mention Ill be looking to start some evening classes soon for interior design/architecture. Its all going to be alot to learn and take in.

Having said all that, I put my hert and soul onto almost everything I do, so I usually soak it all up like a sponge. Lol, life just flies by, dont it?

Pierre
I think for the amount of finishing that you'll be doing,it would be foolish to spend that much for a pump
There's so much you need to learn about finishing
You need to learn about the product you're about to spray
Sanding, prepping etc,etc...
What if you end up not liking it?
What if you're just not cut to do the job?
Spraying with a gravity gun or pressure pot will give you a nice finish
Might not be as fast as a pump but still really good
Once you get good at it you can look into getting an AAA
You will need to learn and practice with the pump
I took all the classes that MLC offered and learned a lot
Once you educate yourself it will make your job much more pleasant
Good luck and let us know what you decided to go with

Pierre,
You're going to do great. I'd hire a guy like you anytime. Keep up the good work and don't stop asking the questions or looking for the answers.

Shane thats exactly what I made sure this set up has. It has a pulsation chamber/ filter, then the low pressure regulator.

Jonathan you know what your doing if you know what the wink is.... good to hear!

Pierre,

I would encourage you to buy a decent high transfer gravity gun.

That CAT x looks like a nice piece of kit. You can spend less but it won't come in a nice box with the pps, a handful of the different needles, excellent customer service, and made in the USA. Perhaps most importantly you can have it match the color of your shoes no matter how funky.

Read the cfm requirements before you purchase. The high transfer guns are thirsty. You'll need a decent sized shop air compressor to run it properly. 5hp 60-80 gallon. The typical ones at Homie Dopie are $500-$700. This is one reason why small shops often start with turbine rigs.

You will learn the fastest with a gravity gun. It has less parts and variables. When you start out using a small amount of finish is important. You can afford to dump it out and start over if it goes sideways.

Good luck.

Ok. I pulled the trigger (see what udid there) and put the order in for the AAA cougar setup. It should arrive in 5 days. Thanks so much to EVERYONE who contributed. I can assure you that i will be taking something away from each of you. For those interested I will post some before and after pics of my first hack job. Regardless, im excited to see what this thing can do in my amateur hands. So for now...
GO SOX!!!

Great news! You chose wisely young Jedi.... you'll love it after you get it dialed in... Looking forward to see some pics.

Thanks Shane! Although at 47 I don't feel so young...
In fact, just yesterday i did a fool thing by lugging 2 boxes at a time of flooring across a long muddy field. I can still do it...i tell myself. Then, reality....

Pierre,

How has the finishing been going with your new setup? I am looking in to investing in to a AAA setup this year and curious on your results.

Josh