Accounting for twisted cabinet install

Over the years it has become obvious that a "twisted" wall means twisted uppers if you don't shim correctly. My question is how do I determine where to screw cabinet tight to wall and where to start shimming? Having a solid background in finish carpentry an analogy/example of this problem is out of plumb walls when hanging a french door. What I was taught is to pull a string from each corner of jamb and move legs of jamb and when string touches at center the plane of the two jamb legs are now parallel. I'm just wondering if there is such a technique for determining where to start shimming for hanging frameless.

Dave Edgerton

[X] View Member Profile Name: Dave Edgerton Company: Fine Edge Cabinetry and Millwork Location: Canada Member's Business Categories: Architectural Millwork - Custom Millwork Cabinets - Kitchen & Bath Cabinets Member

Darn! I actually seriously never thought of the string idea for passage doors. Learn something every day! As for your question I usually run a level all over the wall and find the point that is the furthest in and furthest out of the plane of the wall and then try to fudge the shimming so it is not too obvious. Start fastening near the furthest point out of the wall plane.

chris

running the level all over the wall would be better than what I am doing now, which is pretty much nothing...find level, snap line and hang

mastercabman

You can start by driving a screw at top of cabinet,then check your cabinet if it's plumb.
Most of the time you will need to shim out the bottom.If not,drive a screw at bottom and back out the top screw and shim.
You can alway check for squareness by measuring the cabinet.
Top right corner/bottom left corner should be the same as top left corner/bottom right corner.

fs

establish an axis line paralell to the base cabinets. Set pls 180 on said axis line...find the spot on the wall closest to the line, shim cabinets to that point parallel to the axis line. Installing the bases first helps with this method, also I like using a flat cleat on the uppers...they hang but you can pull them or push them as needed. Most projects I am on have established axis lines that each elevation have to be parallel to for coordination for other trades, symmetry etc..

Leo G

[X] View Shop Gallery Listing Project Gallery Listings: (8) Computer Desk   : 04/26/07 Sapelle' Bar Room   : 11/21/08 Sapelle' Curved WIne Room   : 11/25/08 Stair and Wainscot Paneling   : 11/26/08 Sapelle'/Mahogany Table   : 12/13/08 Quarter Sawn White Oak / Mahogany Coffee Table   : 12/13/08 Spoke Wheels for 1/3 scale Gatling Gun   : 09/13/09 Rope Mantle w/Flanking Cabinet   : 07/08/11 Member's Business Categories: Architectural Millwork - Custom Millwork Architectural Millwork - Doors & Windows Architectural Millwork - General Architectural Millwork - Millwork Installer Architectural Millwork - Moldings Cabinets - Cabinet Installers Cabinets - Custom Cabinets Cabinets - Kitchen & Bath Cabinets Furniture - Custom Furniture Woodworking - General Member

I use lasers to determine what the cabinet needs.

If you plan on putting the cabinet up only one time your options are very limited.

chris

I really dont know why that didnt cross my mind. thanks. I'll try it

Gerry

I Struggle with this also. I install my base cabinets first so I am considering building a support system that will allow me to assemble all the top cabinet together on the top of these adjustable supports then push them tight to the wall & shim where they don't touch the wall. This is all hypothetical at this point :)

chris

Good idea in theory Gerry.
I recently installed some Ikea cabs for a cheapo tenant improvement job. I have to say, the metal rail system has some sweet advantages. ie. hanging rail shows you where the humps in the wall are, the bolts sticking out of the rail for the cabinet allow you to quickly lift and hang the cabinet in place and slide it over, and only the bottom/top of cab touch wall so there is no interference with the back of cab touching wall. Also, no missed the stud screws with 3 fastcaps next to each other. Only complaint is the white caps for the hanger doohicky on inside look barf ugly. Other than that thuper dooper thystem.

Gerry

I like the idea of the track hanging system but have not tried it. There is a new product on the market called a shim screw.
http://www.grkfasteners.com/en/TOP_1_2_information.htm
I think the laser & these screws could also be a solution to this problem. The problem is sometimes the cabinets are so tight to the ceiling you can't get a taper shim behind them at the top & the shim screw could resolve that problem.

Bill

I found the "new" part about Gerry's comment interesting .... it's been decades since I've used them, but the picture at the link he posted is what I've always called "jamb jacks" .... they're absolutely butt-savers when installing french doors - you place them at the hinge area of the jamb where the door stop will cover them up, hang the doors, and tweak the jamb jacks so all reveals are perfect. Best thing - if the house moves, and the doors go out of whack, you pop the stops, tweak the jacks, and look like a hero.

Never used 'em on cabs, though, but in theory, they should work the same.

Now if speed and cost is not an issue, they might just the ticket, but I would sure guess they cost more, and add time

Gerry

Everything old is new again.
Maybe just new to me ;) I had not seen anything like them before.

Gerry

mastercabman

There's also a screw called JAMO that does the same thing.I think it's a little cheaper than GRK product.
I have tried to use them before and did not care for them.This was over 10 years ago.

mark

What Leo says is true. I, however, just plan on installing twice. Once for scribe lines, and then for good.

Chaim

Here's a cool trick that I saw on Gary's web site "this is carpentry".
Use drywall screws as shims.
First check the wall with a long level and add drywall screws along the bottom and top of your cabinet instal as shims then screw your cabs into the studs.
I believe the trick was used for installing trim but it could be adapted to many applications.
Chaim

Chris Tomasi

man...what a simple trick (that I learned from baseboard inside corners) but, duh, didnt think of using for this application.
Thanks. I will try this next time

Joseph D. Christman

[X] Member

As Dave said, run your long level along the walls and look for humps/dives, as well as identify out-of-plumb extremes. (Just like you do on the floor)

Whenever possible, I like using a rabbeted cleat system that I mill from europly (usually 1/4"x1/4" tongues on 3/4" material.). The advantage of a rabbet vs a "french" cleat with angled surfaces is that subtle variations in flatness won't affect level. It also makes it much easier to pull the uppers back down if necessary.
Of course, I still anchor through the cabinets into the studs once everything is set.