Hi guys, I'm needing some advice from other shop owners/managers. I'm currently in a situation where I feel like I do most of the "ownership" work. I've been working for this company for almost 14yrs (started when i was 22yrs old now 36). I started as a microvellum drafter and now operations manager. The company went under new ownership 2yrs ago and I was promoted to Operations manager (with a pay increase). The previous owners were pretty much mentors and I never really seen them as my Bosses. So I've learned a lot in the 14yrs that I've been working here.

My current role is the following:
manage project,
attend meetings with designer, architect, builder, and client
provide accurate samples and manage samples.
Site field measure
engineer project
Draw project for approvals
create fabrication drawings and documents
review project with shop foreman and employees.
Create cut lists and CNC reports
Program CNC specialty programs
Create veneer layouts and review with layup person.
Problem-solve issues in the shop
problem solve issues in the field
Purchase orders
Create schedules, timelines and keep them updated, and following up with contractors to meet deadlines.

I'm basically involved with the project when it comes in through the final walk-through. and multiple projects at a time. I deal with the client from beginning to end.

I'm in the process of learning the bidding side of the business and will eventually hire 2 cad guys to help with the drawings side of it. I'm doing it all right now besides the bidding. Drawing and managing.

I get compensated well but not 100k a year good.

We're a very high-end residential shop (projects range from 75k -$750k per project) usually have 2-3 $500k+ projects going on through the year and a handful of smaller 75k projects.

Just curious as to what other shops would be paying someone in this position. The new owner has very little woodworking experience and absolutely no engineering or CNC programming experience. The previous owners are pretty much out of the picture.

My strong suit is Engineering, CNC programming and making sure the projects fits when done. Dealing with the very high end we get a lot of technical ideas and very custom projects. Angles, curves, cantilever curved cabinets etc.. I'm the one that figures it all out.

Thanks!

I don't know what a PM in a cabinetshop should make, but I bet you're making more than I am, and I came up with the company name...

Office Manager (if that is your real name):

Your lack of bidding experience might make you worth less than you think you are. Also, location, location, location bears a large role in determining compensation.

As there are any number on headhunters who post regularly in the Job Opportunities Exchange on this website, you might consider polishing up your resume and submitting it to these organizations, who may pair you up with a company that might be looking for a guy just like you. You may need to relocate if hired, but at the very least you could interview with those companies and get a sense of what others are willing to pay for your skill set on the open market.

Lack of estimating experience may be a deal breaker, but perhaps not for a company that has an estimator. Either way, it could be either an opportunity for advancement, or a humbling experience, to have someone else put a dollar amount on your relative value as an employee.

You could always start your own business, but Karl's words may come back to haunt you, at least in the early stages of your enteprenurial undertaking, especially with no estimating experience.

Maybe it's not so bad where you are, after all. Learn how to estimate, and maybe revisit this thought process when you have that as a skill set as well.

Your mileage may vary.
TonyF

The key to being happy is to be happy.

No one can give you an answer without knowing what your revenue and profit margins are- all else is wasted words and motion until that is known. Because those will tell us how good you do all the rest.

You don't say what area you are in.

I'm thinking at the low 55k at the high 100k

Why can't you apply for some jobs and find out?

The tendency is to think you are worth more than you are, especially in a shrinking industry. OTOH MV is a good skill, knowing people in the high end market is valuable but when interest rates go back up the story could change.

Most of the guys that have shops started down that road because they weren't making as much as they thought they were worth...

The chart below is from the BLS although admittedly someone in management would make more.

View higher quality, full size image (1014 X 450)

This is relevant regardless of the usual attempts at gaslighting.

View higher quality, full size image (875 X 624)

Thanks guys. To clarify, I'm extremely happy where I work at. I pretty much take time off whenever I want. Come and go as I please, I'm never late no matter what time I come in. But I'm very responsible, if i have a deadline to meet I will show up to work at 5-6am and stay till it's complete sometimes work late into the night.

I'm currently in the process of learning to bid on projects. I wouldn't say I have zero experience as I'm currently involved in figuring out times and material cost for new projects being bid but I don't write or submit the bid.

I'm not looking for other employment and honestly, that hasn't even crossed my mind. Out of the 100s of cabinet shops around here there's really only 1 other shop that does the same caliber of work that my current shop does and applying with them we'll I wouldn't consider it (yet lol).

The other perk is I have access to the shop to build my own personal projects even on the weekends. CNC, laser edge bander, full blown automotive paint booth, and all the tools and delivery trucks and trailers.

I network a lot around here and know a lot of the other local shop owners. I have actually helped other shops around here (commercial) in training someone in Microvellum, CNC, creating fabrication shop drawings or just looking at their operations and making some suggestions. I've had the opportunity to also help a few out of state shops (residential).

I was just curious what other shops pay someone in my position or if they even have someone employed that plays this role.

You never said where you are located.

Sounds like you're happy--why do you care what someone else makes?? If you want more, then I would think one would go out and find it.

As was stated by "Owner" previously, the revenue for which you're responsible is the key variable. If you wear all those hats for a shop generating $300,000 a year in revenue then your worth is about $45,000 a year. If it's for a shop doing $2,000,000 a year, then you're worth about $300,000 a year. Neither of those are made up numbers. So which is it?

mauricio.
The key to happiness is low expectations.

If you don't want to disclose your location then some items like the cost of a 2000 Sq foot home in a nice neighborhood with good schools and the $ per hour pay rate for the best shop person.

Otherwise its meaningless what someone in Tulsa makes compared to someone in NYC or someone an hour out of NYC and an hour out of Tulsa

A-

Shop Owner:

Perhaps such an individual exists, but in over 40 years of cabinetry and architectural millwork, I have yet to meet the project manager or general manager who is worth 15% of the gross as salary. What does the owner get paid in that scenario, and how much is left for the rest of the expenses?

Ever curious.
TonyF