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dovetail bits

4/22/22       
TRAVIS D ALFREY

I just purchased a dovetail machine. Northstate dt65. What bits do you guys suggest? It looks like it has a single flute cutter in it now???

4/22/22       #2: dovetail bits ...
Leo G Member

Looks similar to my Grizzly Dovetail machine.

Eccentric Dovetail bit

4/24/22       #3: dovetail bits ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Which looks similar to the Cantek.

I use a two flute solid carbide from Cantek. I pitch them when dull.

The fitment adjustment with the concentric spindle is about the dumbest thing possible. A two flute doesn't really do much because of that. You want to set the tool by ear. Meaning clock it in the spindle until it sounds like it it's cutting as quietly as possible.
Then adjust the height of the spindle assembly for fit.

Once you do that, from there on out, you can fine tune the fit with a tiny rotation of the tool in that concentric spindle.

It's a fidgety and weird way to do it, but it does work.

I'm looking at getting a cnc dovetailer. The one I'm looking at is $70k though. We've made a lot of drawers with the cantek, but it's poorly made, doesn't deliver the best results, and I think there's a better way

4/24/22       #4: dovetail bits ...
Leo G Member

At one time I was getting a Omec A23 750 bit from a place called Akhurst. Doesn't look like they sell it anymore and another place I notice does but the price has gone insane. They want $136 for the bit. I was getting them for $70. It's a good bit but not for that price. I was getting the Grizzly bits for $35 and now they want $46. $38 if you buy 3 at a time which I would suggest doing. It's a good bit.

When it starts to dull I get out my superfine diamond sharpener and tune it up. I do it right on the machine so I don't have to change anything. Works well and you get a lot of extra mileage out of a bit.

I think my Grizzly works pretty well for doing dovetails. I didn't set it up like they wanted. I set it up like I've seen others do with the stops being the reference for the bottom. I learned that if I make my drawer sides with a .365" reading after the whole inch the parts are reversible and you can put the slot on either side and things still line up.

Mine has an essentric spindle so you spin the bit in it and it'll change the size of the slot it makes so you can fine tune the fit of the dovetails. Using a magnifying glass and the previous reading I can get it on the first try sometimes. It is fidgety but you only do it once every 3000 pins made with Baltic Birch. Probably a lot more with Hard Maple.

What makes your Cantek sub par Karl?

4/25/22       #5: dovetail bits ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

"What makes your Cantek sub par Karl?"

-The spindle runs really warm. I don't think the bearing setup is the best it could be. I've replaced the assembly once already. I've got the old one and I've been meaning to take it to a machinist and have him take it apart, and put a higher grade bearing in to see if that resolves that issue. An electro spindle will run cooler, handle the high rpm better, and do so with less run out.

-I think there needs to be some speed control on the plunge part of the cut. I think it's too fast.

-A cnc dovetailer can run a climb cut to limit tear out.

-You have only one option for pin spacing. A cnc that can be altered, and some other things can be done as well, like doubling up pins to make them wider.

-We oversize all of the parts, then trim off the top after machining to remove that tear out, which is unavoidable with the Cantek. I think this step can be removed with a cnc but I don't know if it will 100% remove it. Wood just doesn't like to be cut in certain ways.

-Dust collection required modification to get it to mediocre. It's still not great with a 4" port, and extra guarding/deflection added. Better than as it came, but still not great.

-For operator comfort, and dust collection, the spindle should be horizontal, not vertical. Most of your drawers sides are going to be around 21" deep or less. They go in vertically. Most of the time it's fine, but when you have a really wide drawer, say 30 or 40 inches wide, the front of the machine is blocked off by those long parts hanging out in front of the machine. If they were vertical, that would negate that issue. You'd also have a fairly consistent distance the parts would be hanging out the front, which should make it easier for the operator.

-The stops are horrifically bad. I made replacements from MDF on the cnc. The plastic ones that come with will deform from tightening them down, even when being careful. Adding a plate to spread out the load of the bolt might help that? They also change dimension with temperature. There's no way to really fine tune the position of them. I ended up making a setup board for the sides and the fronts/backs where you set both stops at the same time on that face of the table, referencing off of the other face with a mark put in by the cnc to line up or index the two setup boards to one another. This is when I learned that the pins and tails are not 1" on center, but 25mm. It's close, but that .4mm was causing a weird cumulative error, that I never could figure out until I learned the centers are what they are.

The machine works, it sucks to get dialed in. It's just not the best solution for me anymore. It's way better than cutting them with a router and a jig, I've made thousands of drawers with a router and a jig. (I wore out multiple routers, and even a template) The Cantek is waaaaay better than doing it that way.

I'm looking at the single spindle dovetailer from Mereen Johnson. I think that's the right solution for my shop. But it's a big chunk of capital considering the small improvement I'll get out of that investment. We're probably making about 150 drawers a month right now. Sometimes less, sometimes more. I sell them to a couple of other shops around here, I wouldn't mind chasing more of that work down. It's easy money and mistakes are pretty cheap when they happen.

4/25/22       #6: dovetail bits ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Here's a link to a video I made of how I setup the machine.

https://youtu.be/tbtoZ5eBJxc

4/25/22       #7: dovetail bits ...
Leo G Member

Wow. Should have gotten the Grizzly. But it sounds like yours is a automatic where mine is a manual. I'm pretty happy with my machine. I get chip out on the top like you do but it's never deeper than a 1/16" and most of the time rounding over the edges takes care of it. Every once in a while I need to cut the 1/16" off the top of the drawer. Stops on the Grizzly are pretty robust. I had a bad hold down cylinder when I got the machine that they replaced without question. It tilted the part every time and it got annoying fast. The new one solved it right away.

4/25/22       #8: dovetail bits ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Mine is automatic.
I don't think color of paint matters. That same machine is sold with different stickers under a bunch of different banners.

I run all of the parts a 1/16" large, then trim the top off with a shaper and a power feed. It's not hard, but it is an added step.

For what you pay, it does the job. That doesn't mean the process can't be improved greatly.

4/25/22       #9: dovetail bits ...
Leo G Member

Yup, I think the casts are all the same too.

5/29/22       #10: dovetail bits ...
Tim Member

Karl,
We bought an Omec 650A a year and a half ago, I think it was 19K. I believe the next step up was close to 30K. Price was comparable to the Dodds. We probably build an average of 65 drawers a month, but we're not close to running it at full capacity. It probably only takes 3-4 hours to run that many parts. I think we could easily do150 without needing a larger machine. The MJ dovetailers look really nice, but 70k, ouch!
We've been very happy with the Omec. Bits are expensive at $200 ea. I think we've done over 400 boxes on one bit, all 5/8 soft maple. They make a compression dovetail bit so you don't get the fuzz. You can even buy a straight bit and do box joints. The machine has an auto cycle mode, so all you need to do is work the clamps, no start buttons to press.
We've come up with a pretty nice little horseshoe shaped drawer making cell. We buy 4.25'', 6.25'' and 9'' soft maple S4S with one edge eased (500-1000 LF gets us the best pricing). Our cutlists for drawers get generated in Mozaik, then cut on an upcut saw with RazorGage. Then go on a cart to the dovetailer. We cut and assemble one box at a time. We have a dado setup on an old table saw with powerfeed directly next to the dovetailer. As soon as the part is cut on the dovetailer we take it out of the clamps and place it directly into the dado saw. From there it gets fed through the dado saw straight through to the assembly table. We quickly sand the interior faces, grab the bottom (cut and labelled at cnc), glue and assemble. Then turn 90 degrees to the JLT drawer clamp. Clamp, staple bottom, Then grab the next set to dovetail. We just cycle through like that. The drawer in the clamp sets up for a few minutes just as you have the next one ready to go in. From there we stack on a pallet, move with a pallet jack to sanding and then they head to the booth.
Our bottleneck is not the machine, I'd say its the sanding. We have an 8'' high edge sander. I wish I had one that was 12''. I have to flip the taller drawers over to sand the entire side. A little hand sanding is usually needed as well.


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