Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Hairline cracks in Face Frames

8/19/22       
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Occasionally we get cracks in face frames, primarily in 1.5 inch stiles and rails used with our flush inset construction. rail to stile connection. I've not worried about it on doors, I think it can't be avoided. Correct me if I'm wrong on that. But do you think it's inadequate glue or the wrong glue? This is with Beech wood and we are in the inland northwest. The joint is glued and with a single pocket screw. Painted with pre catalyzed lacquer, Rudd Chromocat 680 in a semi gloss.

Thanks for any input.

8/19/22       #2: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Pdub Member

Same construction. We Bondo every joint at least once.

8/19/22       #3: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

We let the frames dry overnight and then sand the next morning on our widebelt and then orbital sand. The joints are so tight there's no room for bondo, but sometimes we do putty.

8/19/22       #4: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Glue must squeeze out a bit. Not gobs of it. It is best to wait a full 3 days before your final sanding. Putty the joints no matter what can't hurt. Even if you don't see it go into the joint it does. Let the primer dry fully before sanding, rushing will have it shrink. Block the joints pretty hard when finishing on all coats, helps fill any spaces.

And last but not least... wood moves. Sometimes it can't be helped at a joint. CV is hard and brittle and offers little to no flex. When the joint moves seasonally for years hairline cracks can develop.

8/19/22       #5: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Thanks Leo,
What do mean by "Block the joints pretty hard"? Thanks.

8/19/22       #6: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Piece of sandpaper wrapped around a board to create a flat sanding surface.

I use an electric sander with a very soft pad on it. It doesn't do much to "flatten" the finish. I also have a block of wood with a thin pc of felt on one side that I wrap 320 grit sandpaper around. Makes a pretty flat surface to level out any imperfections in your finishing.

8/19/22       #7: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Ok yeah. Thanks

8/19/22       #8: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

Old school
LOL

8/19/22       #9: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Nick Cook Member

Website: http://kootenaicabinets.com

Yes thanks.

8/19/22       #10: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Mark B Member

Your asking for an unnatural outcome to the process. No one has ever expected a joint not to move? Its, for the most part, impossible. You can fight it all you want... what the heck?... BONDO?..

Move to MDF frames if your trying to go for a non-natural face frame?

Ludicrous. This paint movement is great until you hit one of these issues and it costs the industry a fortune to supply something that was unrealistic to offer in the first place. You deserve you misery lol.

8/19/22       #11: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
RichC

Good time to use the search function. This comes up often

https://www.woodweb.com/forum_fdse_files/cabinetmaking/858276.html

8/22/22       #12: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Kevin Dunphy

Website: http://kdunphy.com

I did inlay doors for boats because of the locking hinges. I set up a radial arm saw and did lap joints with no issue also I biscuit the face frame to the cabinets
I think no matter what wood will move the paints show up any little thing because were getting so good at finishing getting almost like cars you see the smallest imperfection . But MDF is not the answer

8/22/22       #13: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Adam

pocket screws don't work you should mortise them if you want to do it right

8/22/22       #14: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Leo G Member

End grain to edge grain joint is still the same. Movement will occur and a hairline crack will eventually form if you use a hard finish such as CV

8/22/22       #15: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Mark B Member

Mortise and tennon dont mean squat. Hairline regardless.

8/23/22       #16: Hairline cracks in Face Frames ...
Tom Gafgen

I wonder if a 2K urathane finish would be more flexible and not crack ?


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello
    Today's Sponsors
    • GreCon
      Spark Detection and Extinguishment Systems and Quality Assurance Measuring Equipment
    • Excel Dowel and Wood Products Inc.
      Plain and Pre-glued Dowel Pins, and Wood Parts - Servicing Small Hobby Shops to Large OEM's
    • CP Adhesives
      Supplying Quality Adhesives to the Woodworking Industry
    • Rose Machinery
      Horizontal Band Re-rips, Standard & Custom Designed Machinery
    • Cabinet Pro
      Design and Manufacturing Software for the Cabinet and Door Industries Since 1986
    • Cab Parts
      Pre-manufactured Components for Easy-to-Assemble Cabinet Boxes
    • Colonial Saw
      North American Supplier of Striebig Panel Saws, Lamello Specialty Tools and a Wide Range of Saw and Tool Grinding Machinery
    • Palmetto Cabinet Doors
      Supplier of Quality MDF Cabinet Doors
    • Cabinetshop Maestro
      Web-Based Project Management Software for Custom Cabinet Shops - Manage Jobs from Prospect to Punchlist Through Scheduling, Task Management, Time Tracking and Communication
    • Vacuum Pressing Systems, Inc.
      Vacuum Pressing Equipment - Including Bag and Frame Systems
    • Professional Machinery Group
      New and Used Machinery Serving the Needs of the Professional Woodworker
    • Felder USA
      High Quality Woodworking Machines and Tools
    • Anver Corporation
      Vacuum System Components - Suction Cups, Vacuum Pumps, Vacuum Lifters & Lifting Systems, and More

    Become a Sponsor today!