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Shopsabre IS-M series CNC

2/18/20       
Bill Member

Does anybody have one in there shop yet, or witnessed one in action? There is a 25% jump in cost, compared to there IS series, so price-wise they'll be close to base models of bigger name imports. Actually, sort of reminded me of an Andi CNC

2/19/20       #2: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
DannyB

I have played with mitsubishi CNC controls on other woodworking machines, but not ShopSabre.

I do have a ShopSabre pro3636 that i've converted to Centroid, and a bunch of other mills i've converted to various control systems over the years.

This means i spend more time playing with CNC controls than I do production woodworking :)
So take it all with a grain of salt.

Mitsubishi's CNC controls definitely blow WinCNC out of the water in terms of quality and overall capability (like, for example, it can compensate for thermal expansion of ballscrews on the fly if you have something that can give it the data on the temperature/etc).

And honestly, anything is better than the programming capability that wincnc affords.

But for the customer base of Shopsabre though, not sure anyone will care.

WinCNC has a happy, pretty UI that is customizable, and when you click the buttons, it cuts wood well.

2/19/20       #3: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
Bill Member

I’m guessing you have some experience with metal milling equipment and controllers...I have none. If so, do you have any opinion on OSAI controls?

Also, why the attraction to controllers like Fanuc, beyond the “non-proprietary” components, considering the interface most manufacturers have included (Wincnc) for end-users to make the machine more accessible is aesthetically more appealing and usable...please be as brutal if this question comes across as obtuse!

2/21/20       #4: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
Mark Tomlin

Website: http://www.cnccustomservices.com

In metal working Fanuc is dominant for really two reasons; one stop shopping and mean time failure rate. Fanuc controls are coupled with Fanuc servo amplifiers and Fanuc motors. They have been a staple in metal working for decades and have one of the best mean time failure rates in the industry. Accuracy has an entirely different meaning to machinist than wood workers. While aesthetically appealing graphical interfaces and ease of use are important considerations to a point, results when your dealing within ten thousandths of and inch or microns matter more. Another important consideration is some industries must have controls that are isolated from the internet for security reasons. This is a pretty in-depth topic, not sure I answered your question or did it justice.
Osai's are good controls as well, they used to be Allen Bradleys. They never quite had the market share like Fanuc, but perform very well.

2/22/20       #5: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
Bill Member

Thank you Mark, I was wondering about the trade-off and hearing a perspective/reason that favored the numerical heavy controller to the more shape representative interface.

2/25/20       #6: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
DannyB

Yeah, I started to write you a very long response and stopped several times, but mark hit it on the head.

The needs of metalworking are much more complex. 4th and 5th axis work is very common, and working materials vary a lot in how to approach them. This requires very good motion control, motor/spindle feedback, etc.

(it is now possible to do this on PC's, or using remote UI's to motion controllers. it was uncommon/a pain years ago)

Contrast this with wood - if you slam a carbide bit into it as a reasonable speed and angle, it does okay :)

WinCNC, by comparison to most metalworking controllers, is a *very* simple device. It has no feedback of any kind, does very simple non-differential step+direction output at a fairly low speed, etc.
(The timer card they use to do it is even EOL'd by the manufacturer :P)

This would never work for metal.

In the end, beyond that, the niceness doesn't matter enough. It's mainly because the machines and needs in woodworking are so varying.
In metalworking, they all do ATC/4th axis/etc, and so you can just count on it existing. Given this, you can actually make better interfaces - customizability is only a positive when things change all the time or everyone has very very different needs. :)

Meanwhile, on the other side, WinCNC has no nice conversational interface for toolroom usage, etc.

It's definitively *not* better for metalworking compared to the controllers i've used.

2/25/20       #7: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
jb Member

From what I understand, the IS-M series is ShopSabre's first offering of a complete Mitsubishi control system and does not use WinCNC at all.

2/25/20       #8: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
DannyB

jb, yes, Bill asked about why other manufacturers don't use wincnc.

2/25/20       #9: Shopsabre IS-M series CNC ...
Bill Member

Looking more into the required feedback when metal milling, your comments make plenty of sense to now Danny, thanks for getting back to me.

This IS-M machine will be for a particular product maker.


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