Hello,

I am trying to stain wood black (but not a complete ebonizing). On light wood such a birch it's very easy. On other woods like oak or ash well it's black but as soon as light hits it… it's more like a grey, Brown green, red. I know stain are affected by the wood color but this is just ugly.

I have already tried dying the wood black Under the black pigment stain if I put enough dye to make the wood black i get completly ebony by the time the pigment stain is applied. If I Apply the dye just a little bit I get hue of the base color of the black (green, red or blue) Under the pigment stain. I also use toner over the wood but toner won't turn a bad stain job into a masterpiece.

I am starting to look into very light dye stain color to even the wood that I could spray without darkening the wood. Like a yellow that could even the color everywhere then apply the black pigmented stain.

There must be hundreds of possibilities but if someone have already tried Something similar this could speed up my expérimentations

for a refrence I have added a pic of a test piece I made. I have tried different light but cell phone pics arent the best.

Anyways the dark side was died with a VERY light jet black dye.

Then the wood is wiped with a damp cloth to even the dye and open the pore for the wiping stain.

black pigment stain is applied.

the first cv coat has black pigment added
the last 2 have the same jet black dye added to them.

applying the dye darker make the wood more black and less of its natural color wich is a good thing but it also darken the wood to the point where the grain isnt showing anymore. especially after applying the wiping stain.

This has led me to thinks about using light dye colors such as yellow, light brown etc. as mentionned previously. in order to give me a uniform light base color. Do you guy have experience is thia kind of combination?

It seems like I have no problem staining colors that are brown tones but black always seems to give me problem except maybe on white and yellow birch.

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Stop wiping it with a wet cloth would be my first suggestion. Flood the surface with dye, then very lightly wipe with a dry cloth. Wiping with a wet cloth will absolutely change the color.

Also try lightly wiping down the first coat of dye with a cloth, and then spray a second coat and don't touch it.

i know the wet cloth make the pigment stain darken but its on purpose since I tried staining with wiping stain after filling with timbermate and sanding to 150 grit and the stain act like if the wood was sealed( it was wiped off completly). Even with fresh sandpaper ash did not take the stain unless it was water based(day night difference).

As for dye I spray them what you would call dry. I am willing to try you spraying method wich is flooding the surface but wont I go back to square one (the dye making my wood almost black opaque)?

I did this white oak with Sherwin Williams BAC Wiping Stain, one of their stock colors that we then tinted several times to get the color I wanted. If this is close to what you are after its a pretty easy process. BAC Wiping Stain has both dyes and pigment in it. It's often used over a base dye, as you suggested, but it can be applied directly to raw wood, too, as I did.

John

OK, let's try the picture again

maybe now

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Now john this is a great job.

on the dye base when you do a black job like this does your dye is necessarily black also or do you often use a lighter color before going for the black stain?

Not sure I understand your question, Pascal.
The BAC Wiping Stain I used was a mix of Midnight Black plus a custom blend, to which I added some dark walnut and red dye. It was really dark, but not black. I can look up the exact recipe from my project notes if you want.

The panels were sanded to about 150 grit, vacuumed off, and then I brushed the dust out of the grain with a brass brush, and then vacuumed again. I found this to be really important to preserve the rift sawn grain definition.
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I applied the stain with a foam brush and wiped it off as soon as I had the panel coated.

John .

well my question is wich color of dye would you spray before my black wiping stain..

right now im doind black on black the the dye stain is making it almost opaque. but the wiping stain alone is too light and the wood stays brownish green.

is it possible to spray like a yellow dye stain to even the color to a more neutral color. on even a light brown. or are most black finish made with black on black

No idea, Pascal. But I would think black on black is the right approach. If it's too dark then I would try adding thinner to the dye. I suspect it's going to go more towards green if you start with yellow dye. I'd be looking at brown or black, maybe with some red added to counteract the green, but the only way to know is to make samples.

John

Are you looking for something like this?

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well this is certainly a nice black that would satisfy me