Dust Collection

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Dust collection

12/9/17       
Eric Member

Is it possible to have a indoor bag style
dust collector piped so dust goes outside into dumpster instead of lower collection
bags and what is needed

12/10/17       #2: Dust collection ...
Bill

Yes with a rotary airlock and a closed loop blower system.

12/11/17       #3: Dust collection ...
Gary

And an airtight container to replace the lower bags.

12/11/17       #4: Dust collection ...
Gary

The container would have to be tapered like a funnel so gravity feeds the sawdust into the top of the airlock.

12/11/17       #5: Dust collection ...
Bill

The bottom photo of this link is a system Like I described. You do need a rather large container outside the building for the dust to settle into. Think 40 yards. It is not an inexpensive proposition. Think over $10K for sure.

Bag dust collector with air lock.

12/11/17       #6: Dust collection ...
Gary

Bill,interesting picture. I did not know anything like that was available.

It would make more sense to have a system like the bottom photo with both funnels angled towards the center and use just one airlock. I assume the units shown are modular and used as such. Rotary air locks are expensive and if the system can get by with only one it saves a lot of money plus it is simpler to plumb in the ductwork. The funnel system could even be shop made from plywood finished on the inside to help gravity move the sawdust down.

12/11/17       #7: Dust collection ...
Bill

Any bag system I had like that the bags at the end (away from the blower) always filled first. If I had a 4 bag system I would only get one airlock setup and put it on the two end bags and "plug" the other two bottoms. The question must be asked, how much chip volume do you produce? Why not an outside collector?

If I were to do something like you describe I would get a small cyclone. I just sold an Oneida Unit with a hopper like in the photo on the website.
The hopper is a vacuum sealed hopper which cost more than you would think but it eliminates the need for rotary air lock.

Also if you eliminate bottom bags you need to add filter area.

Notice the add on filter in photo on this page. I did something like this once, dust will go in the bag connected by a tunnel.

https://americanfabricfilter.com/filter-bags/

Good luck!

Cyclone with hopper

12/14/17       #8: Dust collection ...
David R Sochar Member

My system, supplied by Oneida Air, does what you describe.

The central pipe runs thru the shop wall to a dust cyclone sitting above an air tight room (4'x 4' x 8'h) attached to the side of the shop. A return pipe runs from the top of the collector room, to the fan, and then goes back into the shop and into a plenum with 8 filter socks. The plenum is below the socks, and has a cleanout door. This all has to be airtight to make it work efficiently.

The fan is after the cyclone to help keep shavings fluffy for the horse folks that haul it. This also helps keeps sticks and debris out of the fan, letting it drop into the bin before the fan.

The Shavings Room has an outside access door with a threshold the height of a pickup bed. The shavings do have to be shoveled out, but the bin will empty about 1/3 on its own. With enough height, a trap door floor would dump into a truck or container, eliminating the shovel.

The system has worked since 1990 with no modification.

12/18/17       #9: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

We have a indoor low headroom system from Belfab. They don't use a RAL but instead have 2 transfer fans in the v shape bottom bin. One on each end.
We blow out to a 16 yd dump trailer that is large enough for our needs.


View higher quality, full size image (2016 X 1512)


View higher quality, full size image (2016 X 1512)

12/18/17       #10: Dust collection ...
Eric Member

Joe
That is the same Belfab collector I have except mine has plastic bottom bags
does belfab make the components to convert mine to what you have Or do they need to be custom made by them

12/19/17       #11: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

Eric,
I would think it would be possible. They probably will tell you that new electronics are needed. We have 2 fans sharing one bag house and the 2 transfer fans are 7.5hp each. From Belfab it was wired so when either fan came on the transfer fans would also come on.
A lot of times we are just using a saw or not making much dust and I didn’t see the need for the transfer fans to be running all the time. When we put in remote control starters I re wired so all fans could be controlled separately and like that better. We are a small shop, if you have many people working probably best to run the transfers all the time.
I would give them a call.

12/19/17       #12: Dust collection ...
Bill

We had a Belfab collector also. I liked it. We had the dumping totes they worked pretty well. Better than bags for sure not as good as blowing it into a dust bin of some nature.

Belfab dumping trucks.

12/20/17       #13: Dust collection ...
David R Sochar Member

How do the Belfab systems blow out shavings while keeping shop air- heat/AC - in the shop?

What I like about my system is that a rotary air lock is not needed. The air tight collection bin serves that purpose, and allows the air to be returned thru the filters into the shop.

What I don't likes that it has be air tight. The outdoor access door is weather stripped and closed with De StayCo camps to seal 100%. Any leaks weaken performance on the collection ends.

If the collection bin can be located above a trailer/dumpster, it would be simple to have a dump door to load the hauling vehicle.

12/20/17       #14: Dust collection ...
Bill

I don't know Joes system specifically but I know the concept.

The difference between a belfab system and a Cyclone is that the bottom of the cyclone is under vacuum, you need that sealed with a rotary airlock or you create a big vacuum leak.

The belfab is under pressure (it's the filter side) so you can blow/suck dust out one end of the v portion and and return it to the other. Its a closed loop no air is exhausted from the building.

The air could change temperature, but it is not lost.

12/20/17       #15: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

As Bill said a little different concept. It is a closed loop system with the trailer airtight more or less. Not much heat is lost. The interesting thing is you can create negative or positive pressure in the system by adjusting blast gates at the closed loop outlet and the return inlet. I need to adjust mine a ltiile as I see the trailer puffing a little dust after we shake the bags. It’s almost magical the way the shavings layer into the trailer. When the doors are opened when dumping the layers of different wood species is always interesting.

Because they use the two 7.5hp fans this probably costs more to run than a RAL closed loop. We don’t run them all the time though. This was the only solution I could find at the time for low headroom indoor DC. Over all I am pretty happy with the unit.

12/20/17       #16: Dust collection ...
Bill

That seems a pretty good solution.

Joe I was looking at blowing dust and chip into a dumpster. Do you feel the dust packs? I am wondering if you get more volume then if it was just dropped in.

12/20/17       #17: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

It does pack Bill. Not sure if Its the weight of the shavings on top or if the transfer fans pack it in. When I open the back doors of the trailer nothing moves till we tilt the trailer up to dump. And have to tilt it to the max. We had to line the floor and partway up the sides with melamine to get the load to slide out.

12/21/17       #18: Dust collection ...
David R Sochar Member

I also like the layering. A sort of wood based geology. The photo has Maple and Mahogany, then Cherry and Poplar, going back in time. The access door - actually a Dutch door - to the collection 'room' on the side of the shop can be seen. The upper half can be opened for inspection. The lower half opens to expose the older shavings. With the ever-hopeful weatherstrip to keep it airtight. The fan and duct can be seen in the top of the room.

My son often enjoyed seeing the layers when he was much younger. Once, he carefully opened the door and put one of his plastic dinosaurs in the lower layers right at the door, and closed it up. When I opened it - there it was, a brontosaurus laying in the ancient layers of - dust.


View higher quality, full size image (1350 X 1800)

12/22/17       #19: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

From looking at Dave’s picture I would say the shavings pack tighter in the closed loop trailer. Mine look all the way up like his does at the bottom.

We built a plywood box on top of a single axle dump trailer. Trying to get more capacity I made the box taller than I should have and it can be a little spooky to dump. When I used the 1/2 ton truck it will lift the rear wheels off the ground when dumping. 3/4 ton truck no problem.
If doing this again tandem axle trailer would be better.


View higher quality, full size image (2713 X 3616)


View higher quality, full size image (2875 X 3834)

12/22/17       #20: Dust collection ...
David R Sochar Member

This photo is of a larger system for a 6-8 man shop. We had a RAL just above the dumpster with a skirt to keep the fines in the dumpster. We had two dumpsters (6x6x6), and could swap them out. Trash hauler picked them up since we could not find a local outlet. The cyclone, fan and filters can be seen on the deck. The 12 filter socks fit into a plywood box below that had a cleanup function for the dropped out filter cake. I don't recall the CFM, but it was 18 HP on the motor, and about 2 HP for the rotary air lock.

This system worked very well. If doing it again, I would build a room around all of it to contain the fines. A wide belt, a four head Quattromat and a lot of Honduras Mahogany made for huge amounts of super fine pink dust all over the collection deck. The local fire inspection people did not want us to do it here without a lot of FR wallboard everywhere.


View higher quality, full size image (1800 X 1350)

12/22/17       #21: Dust collection ...
Bill

One thing to note. You are not supposed to have an indoor dust collector hooked to a widebelt sander. It is a recommendation not a regulation.

David, it that a muffler on the inbound side of the cyclone?

12/22/17       #22: Dust collection ...
David R Sochar Member

Yes, that is a muffler. I have no idea if it worked. Dust collectors are noisy. That's why I put one in its own room away from the shop.

We wanted that system outdoors for all sorts of reasons, but the town changed their mind on placement and it just was too much to fight.

12/23/17       #23: Dust collection ...
bill

I had a similar collector setup and it was loud. I tried to get a muffler on the dirty side and the company would not sell it to me, they said it could clog and not work over time. In hindsight I don't think it would have helped. The noise is generated on the output side of the system.

This is a photo of our main collector, it was not quite done when the photo was taken. A dumpster sits under it and the dust drops in from the airlock.

Without the two mufflers shown it was like there was a jet engine running in the shop. It was over 90db I do not recall the exact measurement. With the mufflers it is MUCH quieter, in the low 70's. The muffler is like a large glass pack car muffler. It doesn't really make sense that it works but it does.


View larger image

12/23/17       #24: Dust collection ...
Joe Calhoon

We put a muffler on a Murphy Rodgers baghouse we had before we put in the Belfab system. It was a outside collector but pretty loud with the return air. The muffler made a big difference.
The Belfab unit has an upgraded fan that is not as loud as the MR unit. I forget what they call it. The transfer fans are pretty loud though but we don't run those a lot.

2/23/22       #25: Dust collection ...
Peter Tusts

The container would have to be tapered like a funnel so gravity feeds the sawdust into the top of the airlock.


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