Question
I'm doing some beaded inset face frames. I prefer to rout the bead directly onto the rails and stiles, rather than nailing on bead moulding. After routing the edge bead, I simply use an old fashioned hand-saw and mitre box to chop off the beading at a 45 degree angle. Then the rest can be removed on a regular table saw. Since I don't do this a lot, I can't justify a dedicated machine, but I honestly don't feel disadvantaged by this method.
My question is in the joinery between the rails and stiles. I've searched this forum, and a few methods have been talked about: dowels, mortise and tenon, pocket screws, etc. What I was hoping for is that a few people could tell me why they choose to use whatever method they use.
The advantages or disadvantages would be things like equipment needed, labor time, joint strength, tolerances allowed, appearance, etc. My personal preference would be towards appearance (first) and joint strength (second). These beaded face frame jobs are higher-end, so an extra cost is usually justifiable.
I had thought about using a more classical rail and stile bit set only at the joints, because of their attractive appearance and good strength. But if you think about the way a router cuts, it would be difficult to do. Cutting the ends of the rail would be business-as-usual. But for the stiles, you'd either have to cut too far – i.e. the joining design would be visible where the beading should be. Or you'd have to stop short early, which would mean your rails and stiles wouldn't fit together, unless you took extra measures. Namely, you could either cut a notch into the rails, or carve out the stiles with hand tools or small rotary tools.
If labor time was no issue whatsoever, I'd like to try the latter method. But if someone could suggest a technique that looks fairly good, but isn't quite so complicated, I'd very much appreciate it.
Forum Responses
(Cabinetmaking Forum)
From contributor A:
I used to use dowels and clamps for my face frames. I tried the pocket screw system and I haven't looked back. The only thing is that they leave the pocket on the rear side. This is rarely a problem. I still use dowels on some things, such as 1" wide drawer dividers for inset drawers.
About your beading dilemma, I always have beads on my face frames. I do a lot of 18th century reproduction and this is just the norm for me. I make quite a bit of 1/4" bead material at one time and then I have it for a couple of kitchens. The only time I put beads in with a router is on my beaded drawer fronts. I have to carve the inside corners to make it look correct.
As for your problem with making beads, why don't you rout them into the vertical styles and then cut the 45º on the end and then you can cut and nail in a beaded piece for the top (horizontal). You won't even see it on the lowers without bending over to see it and in the uppers you would need to use a small amount of putty or filler to close up the nail holes. I use a 23 gauge headless pin nailer on my beads and the paint and primer is enough to fill them in.
I consider dowelling to be superior strength-wise to pocket screwing and also looks wise. I have done all three methods and for kitchen face frames, I dowel. I think mortice and tenon is overkill for kitchen and bath. I use mortice and tenon on furniture. I started my career in a shop that dowelled and later in business for myself. When pocket screw systems came around I tried them but I went back to dowels and never looked back. Please understand that I know they have a place in production work. Also, I have a pneumatic horizontal boring machine which is fast if you’re doing dowels. I know pocket screw machine systems are faster than dowels. Personally, unless you are just doing one art cabinet or something like that, you are not using your tools to your best advantage. I can dig doing reproduction work with a hand saw but you can’t make any money like that on a kitchen. Anyway, I’ll tell you how I do it.
Run the quirk beads (that’s what they are!) on the face edge of your stiles and rails with a router table or shaper (face edge – that’s why rail and stile sets won’t work!) I use a miter gauge and fence to make the 45 degree cuts in the stiles and rail edges on the tablesaw. I then band saw in between those cuts, staying 1/32" or so on the waste side of the line. Then I trim what’s left flush with a router table and flush trim bit. The little radius that is left in corners shaves right out with a sharp chisel. For the 45 degree cuts on the ends of the stiles and rails, I set up a stop on a chop saw and saw the cuts. With close attention, my copes are very tight. As to nailing on all or part of the quirk bead on, I can assure you it is faster to mill the bead on to your stiles and rails and cope the joints.
My one question to contributor B would be when you say *my copes are very tight*, I assume you're not talking about cope and stick joints, but rather butt joints with dowels, or mortise and tenon - with the exception that the 45-degree parts have to line up nicely. Do I have that picture right?
I guess mortise and tenon is a better joint anyway, so I shouldn't try to force a cope and stick style joint. But I think it could be done manually using four passes. You would have to use a slot cutter on the rails (pass 1) and stiles (pass 2). Then you would have to use the female coping pattern on the stiles (pass 3) and the male coping pattern on the rails (pass 4). This would be the opposite of the usual way you do it. So looking straight-on, the frame would appear flat (so far). Looking top-down, it would look like a cope and stick joint frame (most people probably wouldn't notice the difference). After all this you can apply the beading.
This would definitely be impractical in terms of labor, and it would be purely for aesthetic purposes. When many people look down on a door, they associate cope and stick joints with higher quality. That would be the only reason I would even consider doing such a thing. In reality, this joint would be rather weak compared to a mortise and tenon. It could actually crack depending on how deep the bead went, and how close it was to the edge. At this point, it's mostly just a challenge. I don't think it'll be a production technique. For that, mortise and tenon sounds most elegant.
After looking into things a little further, I may have had my terms a bit confused. I've always thought of *cope and stick* as the traditional rail and stile sets done on most routers or shapers. Technically, I guess that term includes *any* 90 degree (non-mitred) joint where the rail and stiles meet. So that would include mortise and tenon, etc. But in the post I just made, whenever I mentioned words *cope and stick*, I meant the type commonly done with a two piece (or even 1 piece) router bit or shaper. Hopefully that didn't cause any confusion.
Then again, you could run it (stopped cuts) just where the face frame members intersect, but still, make separate quirk, cut, nail, clamp, putty, sand putty. As I said earlier, I assure you it is faster to mill the quirk onto the stiles and rails and let the rails, mutins and mullions in.
So, back to the technique:
1. Yes, a miter gauge and fence board, saw blade cranked to 45 degrees, cut the shoulders just to the depth of the sticking" (quirk profile) - a little shy would be better than too deep.
2. Cut the waste between shoulder cuts out with the band saw (no jig, just by hand and eye). Cut as close as you dare without cutting as deep as the finished joint surface.
3. Trim what is left with a router table and a flush trim bit (one that actually cuts flush).
4. Clean out the slight rounded inside corners with a sharp chisel.
5. Use a chop saw with a stop to miter the end of the rails.
I forgot to mention, there is a formula I can give you to figure out the miter angle for 90 degree joints with different widths of members - for instance where a 2" outside stile meets a 1.75" top rail or a 1.375" bottom rail.
Comment from contributor I:
I built a set of inset door cabinets about two years ago. I made an adjustable jig for my router that would hold several stiles at a time with all the inside edges facing up. The jig has sliding "fingers" with short fences on them. I used a 45 degree bit and ground off the bearing nipple leaving a short flat tip. With the stiles clamped down I was able to cut all of my notches for the rails the same width. Then I added a stop to my miter saw and cut the corners off the rails. With a little set up they come out perfect.
