Question
I want to determine the offset dimensions required for using Blum hinges. I hear the offset dimension can vary from 1/8" to 1/4" from the edge of the door. I am using both the 170 degree and 125 degree clip on hinges in a (3/4") full overlay face frame application.
Forum Responses
Blum recommends 3mm-6mm (1/8"-1/4") boring distance for the 125 degree. They recommend 3mm-8mm (1/8"-5/16") for the 170 degree hinge.
With the face frame mounting plate, the most overlay you are going to get is 19mm (3/4"), but you will likely end up with slightly less. This is also affected by which mounting plate you use. Blum offers three different face frame plates for the European hinges.
You need to do a couple of mockups. For instance, on the 120 degree hinge, if you bore it at 6mm (1/4"), when the door opens it will rub the face frame. This may or may not be acceptable, depending on your application.
All these measurements are in metric. It is a good idea to get a metric tape and use metric.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
It has always come down to obtaining the proper hinge plate and the correct position of the plate so you are not trying to adjust the hinge away from where it should be seated. You can get plates ranging from 1mm to 16mm. Blum makes spacer plates to obtain correct positioning, depending on the particular application. I've used spacer plates when hinging doors that retract into their cabinet, and I'm sure that if you used the proper plates you wouldn't have any trouble with doors binding on their carcass.
Doors should be mounted with a 2mm gap between the door and the carcass, so that when the bumper or bump-on is fitted (to stop damage and reduce noise from the door closing) the door runs true along the length of the cabinet.
Although you say you have many variants, the fact is, most major hinge manufacturers are in line with one another when it comes to hinge bore size and fitment position of hinges. The only real variants are the fixing points on the hinges and hinge plate thickness.
“I am using both the 170 Deg and 125 Deg Clip-on hinges in a (3/4")full overlay face frame application”
I take that to mean he is using conventional frameless style hinges on frame style cabinets. According to the Blum™ info I have, Blum™ makes three different face-frame adapter plates. Part #175L6600.22 0mm height, part #175L6630.22 3mm height, and part #175L6660.22 6mm height. Using the supplement to the Blum™ Concealed Hinge Catalog, document 1055.01.00 using a 3mm face-frame adapter plate in order to go from an 11mm (7/16”) overlay to a 16mm (5/8”) overlay the boring distance starts at 3mm and goes to 8mm. This would seem to contradict what you have stated. You insist that all boring to the door is at 23mm to center, assuming you are boring a 35mm hole for your hinge cup, 23mm-17.5mm=5.5mm. According to the way I read all this with your scenario and the 23mm to center boring with a 3mm mounting plate, I will end up with a 13.5mm overlay, using the 3mm plate.
The original poster wanted a 3/4” overlay--how will he achieve this? If he goes to a 0mm height plate he will gain 3mm in overlay, so he’s up to 16.5, still about 2.55 short of a full 3/4” overlay (3/4”=19.05mm). I don’t see any other way to do it other than to change the boring location. Could you please explain more on how you achieve this, with the 23mm to center “do all” fix that you have?
You mention the 2mm gap between the door and the cabinet--let me throw this out, because it seems to have come into dispute. Say I’m using a 75M5580 standard straight crank 120 degree hinge on a standard Euro box. I want 17.5mm overlay. How would you achieve that? The ONLY way I see to do it is with a 0mm height mounting plate and a boring distance of 6mm, or 23.5mm to center bore, I could not make it work with 23mm to center. Nor could I keep the back edge of the door from dragging the edge of the end panel. A call to Blum™ confirmed this--I’m interested in how you have overcome this situation. This is not a quirky off the wall situation--we do it everyday in our shop, we use 17.5mm horizontal reveal.
You also state that all of Blum’s™ hinges will work in your 23mm scenario, with the exceptions noted. Blum’s™ Compact 33 requires a 2.5mm boring distance, 20mm to center. How do you keep these from dragging the face when they open when you bore at 23mm? The Compact 38 requires a 3mm boring position, 20.5mm to center--how does this work?
Please tell me more about these spacers, because I have scoured the Blum™ and Grass™ catalogs and I cannot find any that are for standard straight square boxes. The only ones I can find are for angled boxes.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
Is it possible to choose a drilling distance that would accommodate all overlays with different base plates? This may fit into the KISS method of true 32 which I am trying hard to adopt. Never have to change machine setup, therefore can never screw up door drilling. I already use a full overlay hinge (0mm crank) and then either a 0mm baseplate for full overlay, a 9mm baseplate for half overlay or a 19mm baseplate for inset. I don't have to change the drilling distance for these changes but I still have to change up the drilling distance for a 175 degree hinge and definitely for a compact 38 which won't even open if you used a fat drilling distance.
Take a look at the 18mm mounting plate you are using for your inset doors. Do you understand the physics involved with swinging a door on two points where the anchoring point is about 24.1mm (using the Pythagorean Theorem A˛+B˛=C˛) away from the hinge attaching to the mounting plate? I think you are better off to use the full crank made for the inset door as per the manufacturer's specs. In fact the only instance I could find in the Blum™ Hinge Catalog, was in the case of an angled cabinet hinge. In short I think it would be far more complicated to try to mix and match all the different hinges and mounting plates to try to achieve a standard. It’s far easier to use the hinge and mounting plate as it was intended to be used.
With that being said, and you and I are on the same page, KISS. We're all looking for the same answers in that regard. Here’s my take on it: Define what it is you do. Is your standard everyday run of the mill cabinet an inset door, or is it a full overlay, or a half overlay? Define what it is you do, and then when someone wants you to do something different, price accordingly.
Brian Personett, forum technical advisor
I keep things simple by using one hinge. 98% of the time it's with a 0mm baseplate. When I want a different overlay. I use a different baseplate.
I have to change up drilling distance when I want to use different hinges--it's something I have not looked too far into. I just made a mock up and went with what worked for the situation.
Comment from contributor A:
Having worked with the European kitchen manufacturers for many years and using the type of hinge that you refer to (there are too many manufacturers to mention), I have always worked on the principle that the doors are made approximately 3/16 to 1/4 smaller than the carcass (cupboard) and the positioning of the hinges is 7/8 from the edge of the door to the centre of the hinge. On the Eeuropean system, all measurements are in millimeters. The conversion 25.4 millimeters is equal to 1 inch. This measurement works for all types of hinges (90 and 170). The back plates are fixed at 1 1/2 inches from the front and spaced at 1 1/2 centres.
