We are a face frame cabinet shop. We have done a few frameless jobs in the past but not so many that I am confident of situations to avoid. My main concern is with the wall cabinets. If there are wall cabinets approximately 36" in width, do I need to be concerned with the floor of the wall cabinet sagging from the weight of dishes/glasses inside. My plan is to have the bottom edge of the doors flush with the bottom edge of the cabinet floor. The customer has requested an all white (melamine) interior for the cabinets. Will a particle board core melamine sag more than an MDF core? Should I look at a veneer core product instead? Since we are not set up with dowel machinery, the boxes will be Zip R screwed together or we will use confirmats. End panels will be applied to all exposed ends.
Additionally, I will be using a metal drawer system for the first time. Does anyone have any pros/cons of using Legrabox, Tandembox, Nova Pro, Innotech, Moovit, etc...
Thanks guys for your help. Any and all comments/suggestions are welcome.
From contributor Ji
Have done 36" wide uppers melamine no problems with any measurable sag. This opens a argument of face frame vs. frame less not my point. We use confirmat screws for cabinets with applied ends. Have used tandem box and very nice. Have job coming up with legra box first time. Looked at it in Atlanta IWF last August and it looks like a winner.
Best of Luck.
From contributor Ji
The MDF core is stiffer than the VC.
I use confirmats on the case and use 3/4" backs confirmatted also.
Usually pocket screw the lower edge of the back to the deck on wall cabinets, so that adds to the strength as well.
From contributor JJ
I use 3/4 material all around. Uppers and base. Full tops also. Maybe overkill but 1/4 isn't that much cheaper and I charge enough that it's not and issue. You can screw entire box together. To avoid sag on uppers I would defiantly use 3/4 backs. I like the smaller confirmats 5mm with melamine less chance of blow out. Doing two jobs right now with Legra box and Aventos uppers. Uppers are 49" and have an aluminum profile edge that adds to the stiffness.
From contributor Ja
Spec
3/4" Melamine 36" wide WILL sag some. Put a lite rail at the bottom to help stiffen as well as give better looks. Hide it behind the doors if very contemporary. Try to avoid cabinets over 30" wide for optimal results with the shelves. Consult the AWI Quality standards if in doubt.
Metal drawer systems: Depends on how you are set up and price point for your clients. Best bang for the buck, and rugged, use Zargen by grass. Easy to Mfg if you have the proper grass machines, a pain if not. Nova Pro is a sweet system even without any of their dedicated machinery. Good price point for what you get as well. Less SKU 's to deal with than Tandembox.
Legrabox: a bit more effort to mfg (than the Nova-Pro), and more many more SKU's to deal with but the finished product is excellent! FWIW I think the Blum Products have the edge on the final fit & finish, but Grass's products seem to be geared towards better/simpler manufacturing. Also, Grass has a new 1/2" thick sided drawer.... Vionaro? Nice thing about this one is they use the same runner as their undermount guide, less SKU's to keep on hand! I look to try that our when I can get it. The older systems: Nova-Pro & tandembox will be dropped in the not to distant future I suspect, replaced by these newer systems.
Be precise with Metal systems!!!! -enjoy
From contributor sp
Thanks guys for all of your suggestions. I would like to possibly add a light rail to the bottom of the upper cabinets. I guess I would keep the floor of the cabinet up 2" from the bottom of the doors allowing me to put a 2" wide melamine rail under the floor of the cabinet. I think I would have to go no smaller than 2 " in width because I would have to pocket screw it to the bottom of the floor. The Ritter pocket drill machine makes an angled pocket that is about 2" long.
I'm definitely going to investigate some of the metal drawer systems. The Hettich rep is coming here on Wednesday with a sample of the Innotech. I know Hettich now has a system named Arcitech that is made to compete with the Blum Legrabox and the Grass Vionara. Thanks Jay for bringing up the reduced parts and assembly time for the Grass products. Seems to me that the Blum offering has a lot of pieces to the puzzle.
Keep those suggestions coming.
From contributor La
Light Rail: I'd laminate it whatever color you are banding with, band bottom of it also (run it wide and band two edges, then rip.) You could use maple, allowing it to be narrower, stronger and attach it with biscuits or Dominos as long strips after cabinet install. Use melamine glue on the edge and yellow in the mortises for fast set. Gives a cleaner look and provides better reinforcement. Sell it as a quality feature. Given all the competition it gives something the customer can actually see as better.
I like to use 2mm PVC banding that kind-of-matches the door color. I think it gives a unified look to the front, very durable and it conceals the glue line better.
