Glazed Finish Schedule
Finishers discuss a proposed finishing schedule for a glazed finish. April 30, 2006
Question
I'm about to do my first glazed finish and want to set myself up for success. The cabinets are red oak and will have flat beadboard panel doors. The customer is looking for highlighting of the beaded areas and the grain of the oak. It will be stained with M.L. Campbell Woodsong II Cinnamon stain reduced to 3 parts stain base/1 part stain. The glaze will probably be M.L. Campbell Van Dyke brown. Topcoat will be Target Coatings Ultima Spray Lacquer. This is what I plan to do:
- Washcoat with Zinsser Seal Coat reduced to 5% solids
- Stain
- Seal with Zinsser Seal Coat full strength. Sand
- Apply M.L. Campbell glaze, allow to dry, and remove the excess glaze with a scotchbrite pad.
- Seal with Zinsser Seal Coat full strength. Sand
- Top coat with Target Coatings USL (2 coats)
Is it necessary to sandwich the glaze between the coats of shellac while using the water based lacquer? I'd rather avoid those two steps if possible but am concerned about adhesion. Thanks for your help.
Forum Responses
(Finishing Forum)
From contributor A:
We use a similar schedule, but do not seal after the glaze step. We have always gone straight to topcoat without problem.
From contributor B:
You have two different kinds of products there, stain and glaze. Solvent based top coat is water base is it not? It is best to seal glaze with that final shellac seal coat before top coat. Why not use water based products throughout the whole schedule, particularly the glaze? Target Coatings has a good water based glaze.
From the original questioner:
To contributor B: yes the topcoat is water based and I would prefer to use Target's products for the whole thing. I just don't have the time to order it for this job. I made my samples and everything looks great - better than I expected actually. I just need to make sure I'm not going to have any adhesion problems with the lacquer. Target was closed today so I couldn't speak to the experts.
From contributor C:
To the original questioner: Not trying to confuse you but hoping for clarification from others. Have you tried using a water white vinyl sealer to sandwich the glaze? I have used the MLC Cin and glaze on maple and my only concern was with the sanding lines before the glaze. I found spraying a thinned coat after sanding worked great; otherwise it can be like using a gel on glass. It probably is better on oak. I am unfamiliar with Target products but know glaze and Duravar are like an egg salad sandwich – it goes bad with age. I like the Amazing Glaze by MLC but find the work time is too short for some of the pieces I do. Their standard glaze is very easy to work.
From the original questioner:
To contributor C: Not to worry my friend, your comment didn't confuse me any more than I already am. If my dewaxed shellac doesn't work, I'm going to try the vinyl sealer next. I think we're going to be OK with the current schedule. I hope time doesn't prove me wrong.
From contributor D:
Now you've got me thinking. Do you like the scotchbrite pad with dried glaze better than wiping the glaze while it is wet? I've always wiped it wet, but that can be really frustrating. Any problems with the scotchbrite and dried glaze that I need to be aware of?
From the original questioner:
I actually wiped it off while it was wet this time myself. It gave me the look I was going for. However, I have been told it's easier to wipe off with a scotchbrite pad once it's dry, but I haven't tried that. Do you see any issues with this schedule I'm using? I think I'm good with the glaze sandwiched between the two coats of shellac and then using the WB lacquer.
From contributor D:
I'm going to stay out of this one. I used WB stuff one time, and immediately went back to my precat lacquer, so I can't really comment on it. What I'm using works so well I'm not even thinking about changing to WB stuff. I'll try the scotchbrite pad and see what I think. I read about that option all the time, but have just never tried it.
From the original questioner:
To contributor D: Understand. I don't have a real booth, so WB was the best, first choice for me and, so far, has worked great. My only grief deals with what contributor B was making the point about above. It would make more sense to stay with one line of products. Unfortunately that has been difficult for me to do. The Target coatings products all have to be ordered from New Jersey and there's a lead time, in some cases, that I just don't have.
From contributor B:
The point I was making or trying to make is that the stain and glaze are solvent based products. The top coat is a water based product. Now the two will work together in a lot of instances, but sometimes not. So why take a chance and not try to put a barrier coat of shellac between the two when it is much easier to do, rather than having to go back after project is installed and stripping down entire lot because of poor adhesion? If the stain and glaze were water based then maybe you could get by without the last application of shellac. Shellac has been the experienced product to use when top coating with water based lacquers and urethanes, that is what I was trying to point out - possible adhesion problems.
From the original questioner:
I called ML Campbell about this schedule and I'm glad I did. They said their Woodsong II traditional glaze takes months to dry completely if you put it on without reducing (which I did on my samples). In that situation it should go between two coats of vinyl sealer. They said to reduce the glaze with mineral spirits to a ratio of 3 parts glaze to 2 parts mineral spirits. It should flash off in about an hour. They also said the shellac is still a good idea between the different products.
