Hinge Hardware for a Pivoting Round Window
A discussion on finding replacement mounting hardware for a restored round window that has to pivot in at the top, out at the bottom. November 2, 2010
Question
I am bidding a job which calls for an operating round window, sash size +/- 26", and jamb about 7" deep. I need a source for the pivoting hardware and what was typically used for latch and weather stripping. I don't know if I can get the old stuff as the firemen ran roughshod through this building. I have to replace a 3'4" x 7'6" 2 1/4 " front door also. All was done in chestnut. This is because the low bid ($3500.00 as opposed to $20,000.00). If anyone has a handle on the stuff I need for the round I would appreciate it.
Forum Responses
(Architectural Woodworking Forum)
From Gary Katz, forum technical advisor:
I'm not sure I understand. Is it really pivot hardware you're looking for? That would pose a problem with the swing on the sash hitting the stop on the jamb, unless it's an offset pivot. It would also create a weather stripping dilemma. An offset pivot wouldn't. Most older casement sashes are swing on butt hinges, which work on radius sashes, too. Do you have drawings/specs/photos?
From the original questioner:
The sash pivots at the horizontal plane. It tilts in at the top and out at the bottom about 15- 20 degrees. There is a stop at the top and I assume a latch at the bottom. There is probably a casement type throw like on an old school casement window, hinges and stays, works like a door. I am not too worried about the weather stripping as I can use a new style flanged tube seal routed into the sash or jamb. I’m just looking for a pivot hinge that will work around the window.
From contributor D:
The only time I built one of these I re-used the existing pivots - a simple affair consisting of a long pin through one sleeve and into another sleeve. A small catch was used at center bottom to latch it closed. This was a lot like some interior transom hardware I have seen.
The weather strip was spring bronze. The upper stop was on the outside, ran 180 degrees, and covered the sash/frame joint, and the inner stop was located on the lower half, 180 degrees again. Each stop was actually just under 180 degrees, and allowed the sash to rotate 90 degrees. No screen or storm sash.
Another design I'm familiar with used a rotating round sash that had a half round (divided) glass panel in one half, and open in the other half. This was set in a frame with a fixed half sash (divided glass again) in the upper half. The lower, inner sash could rotate 180 degrees to provide a 180 degree open window. No hardware or weather strip was used. The rotation was the same plane as the wall, whereas the first example has rotation 90 degrees to the wall.
From the original questioner:
The first you describe is the same as what I need, as to the inner stop. Was that set flush to the inner edge of the jamb, thus pushing the actual sash outwards to the thickness of the stop? I don't think the old unit is still available to scavenge the pivots from. Also was there any way to access the hinge after unit was installed?
From contributor M:
I use a hinge from G-U Hardware. As far as weather stripping, I use the two sets of stops like Contributor D. One set is mounted to the exterior and one to the interior with a kerf in bulb on the sash edge.
From contributor M:
Whoops, I didn't mean the stops were interior and exterior. The stops go to oneside with a set top and bottom. One set of stops fixes to the sash and the other fixes to the jamb.
From contributor H:
Unless you are trying to do a reproduction pivot hinge you can use most any cup/pin combination that will allow the pivot. Only problem here is that the cup pockets are in the sash and the pins would be inserted through the outside of the jamb making removal of the sash after installation of the window impossible. I've always loved round operating windows.
From contributor D:
The pivots were brass. Two sleeves, one through the sash and the other in the frame. Both sleeves had a small flange. The pivots were much like a scaffold nail - two headed, and about 3/16" diameter brass, pointed on one end. They were driven into the frame through the sash sleeve, and left a 1/4" headed protrusion for later removal as needed. Pull the pins and the sash popped out - fairly primitive. The sash sleeve went into the Ogee sash sticking on the interior side of the glass (single glazed, with glazing compound to the exterior - old style). The sash was divided with a square light in the center, four 90 degree corner lights and four lights with one curved edge at the four sides - the muntin bars did not hit the sash at the 180 degree horizontals. I have seen pie shaped lights where this would be the case, but was not able to inspect to see how they were dealt with.
If I recall, the lower inner stop was flush with the interior face of the jamb, and the sash was rabbeted. The lower edge of the sash had a strong bevel, and the stop hid this. The same with the upper edge of the sash - strong bevel to allow clearance for weather strip when pivoted. The outer stop was proud of the exterior jamb line, and beveled on the upper edge to shed water.
