Question
I have been researching and talking to some customers about the advantages of frameless cabinets. I was thinking about trying to go in that direction over the next year, but most of my customers seem very hesitant to consider it.
One of the big complaints is melamine being just particleboard junk, and how frameless just looks cheap. I was wondering what some of you frameless guys were telling potential clients in your area to persuade them to try frameless.
I believe there are a lot of advantages for a small shop like mine in the 32mm system, but I could use a little advice on how to promote it. As far as I know, no one in my area is doing frameless.
Forum Responses
(Cabinetmaking Forum)
From contributor J:
First off, the biggest resistance to frameless cabinets will be justified (perhaps unknowingly) by you, by your reluctance to cheer their many benefits to the user. Most customers don't have a clue as to what or how their cabinets are constructed. I promoted them with their space gains, wider door and drawer openings, adjustable shelves, etc., then backed that up with the fact that without a switch to frameless, a substantial price increase was inevitable. My frameless cabinets are detailed a lot more than my competitor's framed cabinets, with stack crowns, light rails, RP ends, furniture feet, etc. to resemble furniture, and that is how I promote it. It's all about the doors, drawer fronts, drawer boxes, and mouldings. Most of these DA builders and homeowners don't know or care how the case is assembled. Just open any magazine and 99 percent of the cabinets you'll be looking at are frameless.
You don't have to use particle board boxes. Sell UV maple ply and if they want to save money, suggest the PB. If you don't have a lot of photo samples of your work, show them magazine clippings of full access kitchens. They'll want it too.
I have never lost a job because a client insisted on having face frames and I wouldn't do it. If no one else is doing full access in your area, I would say you're in the driver's seat.
It costs a lot more to make face frame cabinets. There's just no comparison between making a face frame and putting edge banding on the cabinet box. Installing hinge plates and drawer glides before you assemble the cabinet is a breeze compared with crawling into the cabinet to do it after assembly.
The job I'm currently on, the client requested frameless, even used that term, because they had seen a previous job I had done and loved it.
I agree - call them "full access cabinets," and point out all the features, and they'll go for it. Besides, some of the frame type cabinets I've seen in Home Depot still look like frameless before you open the door, for the hinges have that much overlay.
Go for it! One caveat. Your machining must be much more precise for everything to fit.
It is possible, using frameless construction, to incorporate wide fillers, light valances and crown platforms (or backers) all in plane with the front of the doors, to achieve an inset face frame look without building a face frame.
Once again, in my opinion, frameless cabinetry alone, without some type of added detail (decorative fillers, carvings, changes in depth and dimension, etc.) tends to look boring. Ultimately, though, we still build lots of frames.
When we use melamine, I stress the clean look inside, and how easy it is to clean inside, if you so choose. Also stress the cost savings, although the price of melamine seems to be increasing faster than plywood. I've only had a few customers not choose the melamine.
Let's face it, the vast majority only care about what it looks like when the doors are closed - they don't really care about the construction, as long it holds their stuff. My guess is your customers sound hesitant because of your approach - you probably sound hesitant when talking to them about it. If you make it sound like you think they're better, your customers might be more interested.
One other thing I add is that they are flexible. If they want a new look in 10 years, they replace doors, drawer fronts, end panels and toe skin and they are done. Need a bank of drawers in 5 years where there is a door now? No problem. No face frame to refinish, re-veneer and finish, or modify for drawers.
If you go frameless, make sure you set it up 32mm. Buy an inline bore machine. Even a single 18-21 hole for 2500.00 will pay for itself in the first few jobs. Make sure you set your system up where all of your hardware fastens into the 32mm holes, with euro screws. Figure your end panels out to where they are reversible (holes same distance from either end). Even if you build a std. 30" upper, it may come out to be 30 1/4", no matter. I figured out by 32mm, then converted it over - it is just hard for me to envision how long 1277mm is. I cut out what would be my standard end panels, then draft out so my doors are reversible as well. Pretty much a monkey could build my cabinets, without a tape measure.
