I use electric random orbit sanders. Wondering if anyone has used either of these two sanders and what are the pros and cons. They are a bit pricey, between 5 and 6 hundred. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
From contributor Ch
Festool is coming Out with a similar sander in october too. Ohhh the choices
From contributor JM
I have the ceros. Much better sander than pretty much any other electric. Smoother and more comfortable to operate. It was $teep, but I wouldnt go back.
Not sure about the Deros, my understanding is it eliminates the big power box. No idea if it feels the same in your hand.
From contributor Ad
If its Festool it will cost 3 times as much and be twice as good. You do the math.
From contributor Mi
JM,
How long are the cords from this power box to the sander? My guys move around quite a bit with their sanders. I'm wondering if they'd have to drag a power box or just be limited to a space?
From contributor An
Not to debate merits of different brands (we have several Festool and other, including Mirka that get used daily in the shop)...
I have Ceros only. The sander is great. If you like the feel and handling of a pneumatic, youll like the Ceros a lot. Lighter, just as powerful. Aggressive yet leaves a fine finish with higher grits. Dust collection isnt as good as some others, but it is decent.
The Deros is the newer version without the power supply. I dont mind the Ceros at all, as the power supply sits on the Festool vacs we use, and the cord is the same length (long) as the dust hose. The Deros doesnt look as compact, neither does the new Festool offering. I'd buy a few more Ceros sanders over anything else currently, for a general purpose sander.
From contributor Le
Ceros is the equivalent to a dynabrade air sander. It's actually slightly smaller and just as powerful. Doesn't get freezing cold when you use it in cool temps though.
The Deros is seems a little more powerful then the Ceros even though it's only 300 watts. But it's bigger and not as nimble as the Ceros.
I bought the Ceros and it needed to go in for repair. I borrowed the Deros and used that for a week. I was very happy to get my Ceros back. The Deros does the same job as the Ceros. But the Ceros is more comfortable.
From contributor JM
Mike,
Without putting a tape on it, I would guess it's about 6' from the wall to the transformer, then the transformer has about a 12' cord to the sander. It's a very generous length of cord.
From contributor Mi
I appreciate all the good responses. Good to get info from actual cabinet builders that you know really use them and put them to the test. Two more questions. Do these sanders accept standard replacement pads? Second, the porter cable sander that we've been using cost around $120, the ceros runs around $525. Big difference, I know now that it's a better sander but is it really worth $400 more? JM says it is, andrew, Leo, what do you guys think?
From contributor An
Mike,
Yes I think so. We used to use a lot of cheaper sanders (dewalt and the older PC) and were replacing them often enough.
The thing with the Ceros, is it does have the power of a pneumatic, is extremely comfortable to use for hours at a time, and the dust collection is decent (flat on panels is excellent, on edges not great but adequate). I consider my shop a "small" shop - 3 guys - but being predominantly solid wood and veneers, everything gets sanded. And, I have bought and used dozens of various sanders over the years. I do think that the investment in a good sander(s) like those from Mirka, FEstool etc are well worth the initial cost. With the sanders in current use in the shop, I would say if I had to choose one "best" all around sander it would be the Ceros.
From contributor JR
Anyone do the math on power cost to run a Dynabrade vs a high end electric? Seems like ROI would be met within the life of the sander?
From contributor do
I sure hope Mirka finally has all the bugs worked out with the ceros. I went thru 3 of them and all had problems so i finally just got my money back. This was about a year ago. I really really liked the ceros when it worked. I will buy another at some point and give them another try.
I was happy with their customer service with getting me 2 replacement sanders and finally giving my money back.
From contributor JM
Dust Collection......We swap out the pad that it comes with for some fancy thing that has a groove cut in it to match the diameter of the disc holes. Its supposed to be a universal pad for 5 hole and 8 hole discs. With this pad, dust collection is nothing short of fantastic.
With the pad it comes with, as Andrew says, dust collection is good, but not great.
From contributor Le
Door shop guy-
What "bugs" did you think the sander had?
I know after 2 1/2 years my speed board burned out and I had it replaced under their 3 year warranty.
And then I was notified that the speed board could burst into flames by a recall and they gave me a new sander.
Within 2 months the sander broke a physical part in the balance section of the sander and they fixed that under warranty.
So I've had 2 problems, 1 with each sander that they have fixed free of charge.
The sander is by far worth the money. It wipes the other electrics like a mop on a floor. I have yet to find a swirl mark in any of my finishes. The DeWalt sander I used for years (several different ones) always left a swirl mark here and there.
The sander is very comfortable to use. The dust collection is good, not great. They have since upgraded the pad to an 8 hole and it is much better. Most of the problem is the fact that I have 22ft of vacuum hose on my setup. But I've gone from a cloud in the room to nearly nothing noticeable.
Best sander I've used. Beats Festool by a mile besides the dust collection. 98% vs 99%
From contributor do
Hi Leo
It is an excellent sander...my favorite for sure besides my Dynabrades.
Mine would overheat and shut down after around 5 minuites of sanding. Then would have to wait for it to reset. They repaired and same day i got it back from repair, the same thing happened. So they sent a new one...same problem they were under recall. The last one burned up and would not even start up anymore at all. They never could tell me why but did say they had other problems like mine.
They do have good cust. service! I cant imagine it i very profitable to have so many problems but maybe that i why they are $500.
I have really missed having a Ceros. Will try another one for sure. Just waiting to use up 3 rolls of psa first.
I also use a downdraft machine.
From contributor Ma
I bought the 5" duros. It quit after 30 minutes, something with the electronic switch. I was in a bind so I ran back to the supplier and swapped it for the 6". Used the 6" for a few weeks and the same thing happened. I took that one back and swapped it for the variable speed 6" Bosch which is about 1/4 the price and the guys say they love it. I only used the mirkas a couple times but I didn't find them anything special, and they seemed pretty delicate. Mirka paper however is the best around.
From contributor Le
Never had mine overheat. It never stalled or stopped. Only time I had a problem is when the speed board quit on me. The physical problem I don't really count. Just bad luck on my part.
I can lean on my really hard and the green power light will turn red. I'm sure that means you are overloading the power supply.
Mine just goes and goes.
Are you putting a lot of pressure on it or using very aggressive grits? My sander barely even gets warm.
When I had the physical problem I noticed the body of the sander got uncomfortably warm, which is when I called Mirka Warranty.xx
From contributor Ji
I have the Ceros. Great sander when it ran.
First, as with others the board went out. They did fix it under warranty.
Shorthly therafter the power supply took a dump. At 350.00 for a replacement I passed and bought a dynabrade.
I got roughly a year out of the 500.00 Ceros.
I'm on my second 130.00 dynabrade in 20+ years. They are air pigs but run and run and run.
From contributor Mi
I'd really like to have one of these sanders but I'm a little hesitant because of all of the trouble you guys have had. Even if they do fix it I don't like the frustration.
Jim Herron, I have a dynabrade look alike made by porter cable but it kept my compressor running non stop. I was afraid it was going to burn it up so it sits on the shelf now.
From contributor Le
No compressor required
From contributor An
Like most things, you usually hear the most from those who have had issues. Guys like me that have 5 yr old + sanders that get used hours daily without issue usually don't bother to tell anyone.
Every product has a percentage of failures. I'd buy another mirka in a heartbeat.
If I had three failures I might think otherwise.
I also use mirka pneumatics with dust pickup. Much cheaper to buy but not quite as convenient as the electric. And you can't use the auto on feature of the vacuums with the air version.
From contributor Le
My buddy has a Fein vacuum with the auto on for an air sander. Not sure if it came that way or he bought an attachment.
From contributor Ka
I used almost strictly Dynabrade sanders for ever. I picked up a couple of Mirka Ceros sanders last spring to avoid having to upgrade compressors. One of the best things I've done. They have their drawbacks, very poorly made, though I personally have had zero issues. They are also really aggressive. I have to go down to 220g with walnut to get a swirl free finish sand, but walnut can be a bugger.
JR, I switched to them almost strictly because it makes zero sense to have almost 4hp running a stupid little sander. The Dynabrades are still by far the best sander, bulletproof, good scratch, but their expensive to run. If you want to have 3-4 sanders going at once you're likely going to have to spend over $20k on an air compressor to keep up with them and supply clean dry air.
From contributor Ad
Mike,
Porter Cable doesn't make good random orbit sanders. The Bosch, Makita, and Festool are substantially better. Even the PC hook and loop pads suck and are expensive. I had a Bosch pad last 5 or 6 years. The PC ones would last us 6-12 months.The bearings always go bad on the PC and the vibration can be unbearable.
From contributor Ma
Mike,
I called the Mirka rep directly and spoke with him and all the sanders in circulation now are post the problems mentioned in the replies.
I waited for a long time as well but perhaps 6+ months ago I finally gave in and bought one. There is simply no comparison. It takes sanding to another level and actually makes it a bit more tolerable. I would personally never go with the Deros because the reason I wanted the Ceros was for the low profile and light weight. When you take it out of the box your like whaaa? Then you start sanding and its a whole other world.
I am going to be picking up a 6" body only (they work on all power supplys) and another Ceros here shortly. I would never go back in a million years.
JR makes the exact point many larger shops are realizing now. When you factor out the cost of making massive volumes of clean, dry, air the DC electrics become a no brainer. Of course many of these shops are generating huge quantities of air anyway but its an extremely expensive process. I'd assume your likely using consumer grade electric sanders like the rest of us but my point about the air is that the Ceros will compete with a dynabrade which is on an entire different level than a consumer RO.
Just close your eyes, hit checkout, and get it overwith. Its really that impressive.
From contributor Mi
I really appreciate all the responses. I just ordered the Ceros
Mark B. I did close my eyes when I hit the checkout button, and it did seem to help, hehehe.
I'll give you my thoughts once I give it a whirl.
From contributor Le
You'll love it.
From contributor ch
I also owned a 6" Ceros and never had any issues with it. I really liked the way it handled. No shortage of power. Plugging it into my Festool vacuum worked quite well.
From contributor Ma
We're thinking about the Ceros. We've been using Dynabrades with a 3/16 orbit. Any thoughts on Ceros 2.5 vs. 5 orbit?
From contributor Le
If you are working wood then get the 5mm. If you are using it in the finish room then get the 2.5mm.
I haven't seen a swirl since I started using it.
From contributor Ma
Thanks Leo. Yes, we are sanding wood and veneers for preparation of finishing.
Think it's time to address breathing and sweeping up dust. I like the idea of having a dust extractor be controlled by the on/off of the sander. Can pneumatic sanders have that capability?
From contributor Ge
Hi Mark,
Yes you can get sanders that will self start with a pneumatic sander but they are not as common as the electric ones. I bought one in an auction that will work with pneumatic sanders. It is called a Eurovac and is made in Ontario Canada. I will try to post a pic.
Gerry
From contributor Ma
Thank you Gerry! I found Eurovac's website and I saw the portable unit you have. They don't list pricing, but I'm guessing more of an investment...
I appreciate everyone's response. Originally I was thinking of the Deros, but now Ceros.
We were also looking at the new Festool brushless. I don't see anything listed as far as decibel from Festool. Size, weight, quietness has us leaning towards Ceros.
From contributor Ma
Its far from scientific but I think there are a few Youtube videos out showing the Ceros. Might give you a gauge.
If it would help you I could take a decibel reading off my sander in the morning. I have a short video somewhere of my Ceros showing something non sound related but I dont think it would give you any realistic gauge with regards to sound.
I would say they are far more quiet than a dynabrade. Very comparable in volume to a consumer electric.
From contributor Mi
Got the ceros in a few days ago and even though I rarely do any sanding I just had to be the first to try it out. I really like it. Small and very comfortable to use and unbelievably powerful. I also like that it's much quieter. May get another one for the other sanding station before to long. Thanks for all the info on these sanders.
From contributor Ma
Mike,
Glad you're happy with the purchase. We'll probably follow suit hopefully soon. Thanks for the post.
From contributor No
JM,
> We swap out the pad that it comes with for some fancy thing that has a groove cut in it to match the diameter of the disc holes.
Where did you get it?
All I can find are the standard pads and protectors.
From contributor do
Wurth Emerald Multi Hole discs are the best for the Ceros. Not 5 hole not 8 hole...Multi Hole has about a hundred small holes. 3M has something similar in the purple discs but i have tried it and the grit is not as good as the Wurth Emerald discs. Lot better dust collection than 8 hole or 5 hole.
From contributor JM
We get them from our local supplier. Not sure what brand they are, or really anything about them.....they may very well be the ones in the link below.
Quick google search and this is the closest I could find....
http://www.generalrubberplastics.com/3m-trade-hookit-trade-d-f-low-profile-finishi
ng-disc-pad-84226-5-in-x-11-16-in-5-16-24-external.html
