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bonding 1/4 inch veneers to door core2/4/15
getting ready to bond 1/4 inch thick veneers to both sides of 1 3/4 solid core door. considering tb3, plastic res, and polyurethane flooring adhesive. probably vac press. most important door stays rigid and flat, and of course waterproof?any experience or wisdom out there?thanks
How about "don't do it." If you spend some time searching this site you will find plenty of tales of woe that began when someone glued wood this thick to a manmade core. You will also find explanations for the failure, but the long and short of it is that 1/4" material is lumber, not veneer, and it will exert forces on the glueline and substrate like lumber would.
There's a reason you've never seen a commercial door built that way. That said, you might get lucky as some have. A more prudent way to go would be to use 1/16" veneer if you must have extra thickness. That is three times the thickness of standard veneer and 1/4 the thickness of what you propose, so maybe a good compromise?
Another red flag is the "of course, waterproof?" in your post. If this is to be an exterior door, you need to start over. Veneered exterior doors really need to be engineered from the ground up if they are to succeed. We have built a fair number of them and it is not just a matter of buying a door and gluing some veneer to it.
Feel free to give me a shout if you want to talk this through.
I agree with John above on the 'start over' comment. Brutal, but true.
It just is not good practice to mix veneers and solid wood and stable cores.
Commercial solid core doors are not rated for exterior use, but any plaid pants salesman will tell you to finish it up real good and you should be OK. Just don't come back to him when it swells and comes apart.
Start with a stable manmade core, edgeband and then cross band and then face veneer. I go as thick as 1/8" but 1/6" is better. Plastic resin or epoxy would be good choices.
i dont have the luxury of telling customers of 20 years that i dont want their work. they give me their parameters and ask when/how much. 30 years ago every door i made was stile and rail , paneled , mortise and tenon. with plastic res, resorcinal, or epoxy depending on wood, now my customers buy that door imported for less then i can buy materials for. the designs that come to me are not traditional and dont lend themselves to traditional methods. typical door meeting impact codes/engineering is 2 1/4 inches thick , 3 layers of 3/4 ply with hardwood let in edges or 3 layers of 3 /4 hardwood criss crossed diagonally laid like a boat hull pressed or vacuumed. customers spec no ply and no veneer. we ve had good luck up with up to 3/8 build ups of veneer/lumber on both sides of 3/4 ply for 1 3/4 panels . and 1/4 build ups of veneer/lumber on 1 3/4 exterior rated solid core doors provided to customers from reputable builders suppliers . 13/4 x6 hardwood t and b first then sides with 1/2 x 3/4 tongue and groove joint to core with plastic res . polyurethane flooring cement notch troweled than pressed for 1/4 veneers/lumber. no failures yet.
You don't have to refuse their work, but can you afford to make the door twice? While not all customers are the same generally speaking these are people who make enough money to afford custom work, by doing something other than woodworking for a living. Hence your the expert and need to educate your clients on proper construction/materials. I deal with clients who "think" they know what's quality material and what's not all the time. Usually they're wrong and when it's explained to them they can better understand what they are and are not getting.
You've been given advice by two craftspeople who've contributed to this site for years. Ignoring the advice of people who have learned the hard way how to do, and more importantly, not do something, is probably not in your best interest.
Just my 2 cents for exactly what they're worth:)
I agree with John & David 100%. You may want to consult Gene Wengert on this if you think you are smarter than the people offering the correct answers. Your second post leaves me wondering why the first?
door up for 3 months now. through cold and 30% rh and now hot with 95% rh. samples have survived months of total immersion and drying cycles. customer understands this is not recommended construction and may have to be built again.
Neither success nor failure is ever guaranteed in wood. The odds just shift. 40+ years ago I built myself a table. 3/4" oak, edge glued, 48" square. Two layers of 3/4" oak edge thickened, glued and screwed around perimeter. (two sides cross grained!) I had that table for 20 years, never cracked or warped. Lived in an old house, no A/C or humidity control. Blind luck? Just that no one told me it would fail?