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Cope and stick reversible5/24
I am making some windows out of 1-1/8Ē material and I am looking for a cope and stick router bit that is reversible. What I mean by that is, I want to have one router bit for both stile and rail.
What I mean by this is, I remember there used to be a router bit where you would takeoff the bearing and the top cutterhead and put it below on the same bit and then you can do the opposite without actually changing out the bit and changing the height setting.
I will be using half inch thermopane glass and putting a molding on the back side to hold the glass in. These are storm windows on a home from the early 1900s.
I donít know if I can use a traditional cope. and stick router bit for thicker material like this. It has been many years since I have used this type of router bit.
So it is effectively an all in one bit. Who makes this? Does anyone have a link?
I think the problem you will run into is all the bits I know of only give you 1/4-3/8Ē of a rabbit to lay the glass into. If your using thermopane glass, the black spacer will show and look like crap. If itís an storm window you are making, why does it have to be insulated glass?
Right now it has 1/16Ē wavy glass. I would not promise him the glass would not break up on taking apart the old frames, so he opted for thermal pane glass. Itís one of those things where if he is going to pay the bill, who really cares.
Well, I got my bit at Eagle America. I do a fair amount of window restoration. If you do break a pane, you can get replacement wavy glass. Itís not cheap, but available. I am lucky enough to have a guy intown that salvages old glass windows. He is half the price of new and itís true old glass.
Part of your job is to help educate your customer. If he does not care what he is spending, I would assume he wants a good job done. You also want to make sure a customer like that likes what you do and thinks of you as a knowledgeable craft person worth every penny you charge. You might want to rethink the insulated glass.
My job is to sell him on high quality, with excellent customer service. I understand your point about rethinking the thermo, but itís what he wants, so who am I to tell him differently. The windows are in really bad shape and back at my shop. Itís possible I could save the wavy glass, but he wants thermo, so thatís what heís paying for/gets
If you do find something with a 3/8" rabbet, the black spacer won't be a problem. Just be sure to specify low profile, and it shouldn't protrude into the sightline. I use a 3/8" rabbet all the time and the spacer comes flush with the edge of the sticking.
Better glass insulators are sensitive to the narrow rabbets problem. We can use 3/8" sticking and easily get glass units that are 3/4"thick and 1/4" wide on the spacers so the spacer and sealant do not show in the finished product.
Green Mountain Insulated Glass (in Vermont) is one vendor that is very good at this.
Im not positive but I dont think the re-stackable/reversible router bit your looking for is geometrically possible but there is no mention of the profile. You could use a mandrel based set and not swap the mandrel but you'd still have shimming issues for your tennon fit. Seems like 6 of one half dozen of the other. Given the 1 1/8 and applied retainer on the backside may mean just running a standard cope and stick regardless of the bits panel thickness. Assemble (perhaps with some dowels in addition to the tennon) and then blow the back side off with a router with rebate and appropriate bearing, square up the corners, instal the IGU, and trim?
Thanks for sharing that glass source David. I will check them out. My local glass shop wants a full 1/8Ē off the edge of the rabbit, and only uses 1/2Ē wide black spacers for the glass. A 1/4Ē wide spacer would be a game changer for me. It pays to woodweb!
I used Green mountain for a door last year per David's recommendation. They did a fantastic job! I sent them templates for the curved parts and everything was perfect.
If you do a bunch of these just get the knives ground to the dimensions you want or it should be. It's not that expensive in the long run
Hen Bob is right. You can even get ground to pattern bits that will reverse for cope and stick from C G G Schmidt - the Innovator is a great head. Designed for panel raising, the knives can be shop ground for reversible cuts. Ogee or cyma recta will both reverse, and are familiar profiles. Tenon length is limited to less than 1-1/4", though.
Router bits that will cope also need to allow a tenon to pass over it so it will have a 'flat top' design that is obvious. I have a set from Amana that is like that.
1 1/8" is way thin for sash with insulated glass.
If the glass is 1/2" thick, and you leave 3/8" outside it for putty or a stop, that leaves 1/4" for sticking on the interior, if the tenons are rabbetted off.
Given that putty can cause insulated glass sealant failure, I would use stops.
When Mark Ledvina ran Green Mountain Glass he would make insulalated glass units with cylinder glass on the exterior layer. The old glass would require wider stiles and rails to cover up the 5/16" spacer.