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Subject: Re: quartersawn red oak treads and risers over old stairs

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Message Thread:

quartersawn red oak treads and risers over old stairs

9/20/15       
andy Member

hi
I am just finishing up prepping my
treads and risers,sanded up to 240 grit,
bullnosed,and am ready to top coat
both front and back with Zinseer
Universal Sanding Sealer"no wax" and then 3-5 coats of oil poly.
I am going over 100 yr old "pine" and they are sturdy and quiet and I PLAN TO screw from underneath with kreg type pan heads screws and will use a premiun PL adhesive.
I have read many opinions on movement etc etc.
these are 8 by 33,"3/4 in",rise and 9.5 by 33, 1in t""treads.
using a 10 fl. oz. PL 400 tube as a guide,how much adhesive would you use?
I m thinking of using 12 screws per tread and am inclined to predrill although I know the pocket hole screws are selftaping.

any preference in screws?
Mc FEELEYS?
THANKS in advance

9/24/15       #2: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
rescraft

Oak moves a lot. Does not sound like a good idea to glue directly to pine.

9/24/15       #3: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Steve Member

Similarly to first response, 180 grt would be more appropriate to traffic use but the coating used should be reviewed, read the manuf data sheet instructions. Rather than a dissimilar univ. sanding sealer one major calls for a washcost of the poly then two same coats rather then heavy buildup.

9/24/15       #4: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Steve Member

P.S. twelve screws per tread will invite splitting, re-examine pocket screws choice.

9/24/15       #5: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
andy Member

Thanks for the replies.
I did research the sealer and it seemed to have no bad feedback online.
i like to see the rays and beauty of the QS
wood which is why i chose the non wax shellac.
this is not in a heavy use area"attic stairs".
what screws would you guys use then?
thnx

9/24/15       #6: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
David R Sochar Member

Traditionally, good practice on stair construction requires no screws. A few well sunk and filled nails at the most. The front 1/3 of the tread should be glued and clamped with wood glue.

Riser lower edges are rabbeted to allow the back of the tread to come and go a bit back there, and the upper edge of the riser is formed into a tongue that then fits up into the underside of the tread, with a cove mold to clean it up.

9/25/15       #7: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Larry

Be careful with too much film build up, can lead to checking. Oak can be especially problematic along those lines.

9/28/15       #8: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Mark B Member

As an aside to the treads and their attachment, how are you laying treads over existing treads and maintaining equal rise on the first and last step?

9/28/15       #9: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
andy Member

the stair landing is inside a door so i can build it up 3/4 in or so.
the top step will be a bit shorter,as this is an attic I am not overthinking it.

9/29/15       #10: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
David R Sochar Member

Attic stairs or not, you may want to get all the risers the same - within an 1/8" or better.

Building inspectors, home inspectors (at point of sale), buyers, and liability attorneys (after the fact) will all have an interest in the riser heights. Used to be insurance underwriters checked the stairs, but I haven't heard of that in years.

If there is an accident involving those stairs, you can bet the attorneys will be all over the riser height, tread width consistency, etc.

9/29/15       #11: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
andy

hi
there s going to be 3/4 in hardwood flooring going down in the attic over the dry ply
which will mean less than 1/4 in difference.
I never thought this was such an issue,if you look online there are plenty of sites selling
these treads and risers type kits to go over
old stairs.

9/30/15       #12: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Mark B Member

I think the way they deal with it is either #1 they leave it to the installer to meet code requirements (the supplier of any material really isnt responsible for proper installation) and #2 I have seen these lay-over setups where there is a bit of a landing area at the top and bottom of the stair so to speak. Perhaps 24" of overlay so that as your approaching the stair you step up on a transition prior to ascending or decenting the stair.

Its an ugly solution but about the only one that would satisfy and inspected job and liability.

Sounds like youve got it licked.

10/20/15       #13: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
Gene Wengert - Wood Doc

I would use the screws to hold the wood pieces close together until the adhesive cures. I would not count of the screws doing much after that. I would make sure the front is the glued part, as David indicated.

The coating system you indicated will slow the moisture from getting to the top, but what about the bottom. If the bottom changes moisture, but not the top, that will cause some warping, especially with oak. I would think that some finishing of top and bottom before installation might be a good idea.

10/20/15       #14: quartersawn red oak treads and rise ...
andy Member

thanks all
regarding risers,they all will be within 1/8th
till the top riser which will be7/8ths shorter.
i didnt think being a shorter height would be an issue.can totally understand if it was 7/8ths higher.
i plan on sealing all sides of tread and rise
as i think that would make the wood more stable..

 

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