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Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate

4/25/19       
loringdesign Member

Hello All, I am hoping I could get some input as to best way to fabricate the paneled chevron-like pattern part of this gate. it is a 3'x7' split door. set in a entry courtyard wall. Location is the hills of Los Angeles where i estimated the MC will be .08 - .14 on average. I took a stab at predicting the max expansion in the multi directions and from what i read in the the knowledge Base here thought the 2.25" should be T&G on all three sides and only glued in small sections to keep the little pieces intact. Could be way off here..
Very fortunate to have access to Spessart quarter sawn oak. the styles and rails mills to 1-7/8" x 5" and the t&g will be 7/8"x 2-1/4". I read up on stave core, ladder core which sounded like it may be more solid but i would have to rip the paneling too thin unless i laminated the S&Rs thicker and trying to stay in the solid lumber mode. Also since the doors are really only 36" x 42" thought the 1-7/8" with tenon joints would hold up well. all pieces will be sealed before putting together and both top and bottom will have copper caps for the rainy season.
i have some finish cabinetry experience but little knowledge and although i did a fair amount of research here and elsewhere some of the terminology is new as im sure some of you may find obvious. Any corrections or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. should be able to read the sketch if zoomed in.
thanks

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Gate_Details.pdf

4/25/19       #3: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
Keith Newton

I'm afraid that if I understand you correctly, that when the wind blows causing the gate to slam, that all those parts will be laying in a pile on the ground behind it.

I'd be tempted to re-saw your face lumber down to 1/16" veneer, make up your parquetry, then glue it on both sides of a weather proof substrate with epoxy.

If you do this, you could deepen your groove, and bond the panel in with thickened epoxy to strengthen everything else. I don't think much of dowel joints, and would do M&T instead.

4/26/19       #4: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
loringdesign Member

i appreciate the input and will pursue the approach you suggest. I do have 2 follow up questions:
1) is milling the 2.25" material down to 1/16" to reduce expan/contrac of would it be ok to go with 1/4" thickness?
Im not familiar with the epoxy glue , do you have any more info or a brand?
thank you much

4/29/19       #6: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
David R Sochar Member

Mr Newton offers good advice, and his solution is one way. A good way.

Another good way is to builds a ladder core with additional horizontal rails. They can be narrow. The ladder core should be mortise and tenon. Then mill all your parts to a tongue and groove pattern on sides and ends. Make up your face onto the ladder core, leaving a small gap between each piece. About .030". Glue and clamp the parts. You don't need to slather on the glue, nor do you need to be skimpy and worry about which piece will move where. The gap you leave is for each part to expand and shrink.

Both methods will work. I would go with the one that most closely matches your experience.

What is a 'split' door?

5/1/19       #7: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
Cajun Craftsman Member

I've had great success with this glue on boats. It's not cheap, but you don't need much to create a good bond, yet it allows for wood movement. It is great for oily woods and requires no need to wipe them down with solvent before applying the adhesive. Smith's also has a "MultiWoodPrime" for sealing the wood before applying a finish. http://www.multiwoodprime.com/cart/about.html


View larger image

Smith's Oak & Teak Glue

5/1/19       #8: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
loringdesign Member

To David R Sochar:
thank you for your comments
Ive reattached the drawing of my project for reference. By "split door" im referring to a dutch door where a full size door is cut in half horizontally. My original message has two attached files but only the reference image of the door used as wall art is open in the message. this might be confusing and some reviewers may not click the link of the cad drawing as a pdf file.
Is the approach you suggest using a ladder core still applicable with the stile/rail frame design i am attempting?

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

Gate_Details_2.pdf

5/3/19       #9: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
David R Sochar Member

Well, that is a bit different. Ladder core makes thickness of about 2-1/4" - too thick for a gate panel.
So.... You could do the 3/16" solid, then a stable core and more 3/16" on the other side, and then you have it. Just bond the whole thing to the core, in a vacuum bag or similar.
Or.... do it with solids that have a tight T&G fit. Tap, hammer and bang the parts - 3/4" thick for sake of conversation - together. Leave about .030" at the bottom of the groove to the tongue when in place. Or use v-joint, drive it tight, and let its designed in 'crush zone' do it for you. Once the panel is made up, set it into a plow in the frame with a bead of glue, and you have it .

5/3/19       #10: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
loringdesign Member

what do you think about using 1" thick Extira as a core and epoxy both sides with 1/4" oak stock. then set it as a panel in the stile/rail frame but not glue the panel to the frame for movement with should be minimal

5/8/19       #11: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
Keith Newton

You need to give up the idea that making the face thicker is somehow better. If you make it too thick, seasonal change will make it stronger than the glueline. Thinner than about 1/10" allows the epoxy to prevent the expansion and contraction. Extira should be fine as a substrate.

5/10/19       #12: Need Help With T&G Pattern Gate ...
loringdesign Member

Got it. thank you very much


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