I will be making driveway gates for longtime customer. They are each 72” wide x 36” tall but slope down towards where they meet each other and this will be 24”. Style and rail construction with tongue and groove boards for panels. What I like to do is use 1-3/4” material for style and rails with 1/4” plywood. Mill 1/2” tongue and groove boards on both sides. The plywood gets glued into groove and t&g boards just float.I can’t decide which wood to use, I want to keep weight down so cedar seems good for that issue but not sure about durability. Ipe seems strong but very heavy. The strap hinges that I’m coming across on web search look like 200 lb rating per pair. I think the Ipe would be a problem here.
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Al

Large gates look good in the shop. Not so good sagging in the field. Most driveway gates have a diagonal going from the top of the gate to the lower hinge.

Most good gates I’ve seen are metal framed, clad in wood. Guaranteed not to sag. Have the metal fabricator make the hinges also.

Stile and rail construction is a recipe for failure. The panels would have to be glued in place for any hope of long term stability, and that of course is out of the question. As others have said either cross bracing or a steel frame are necessary.

BH Davis

I'd suggest setting a tall post and then a cable or steel bar to the meeting stile for support. You'll also need one hell of a strong latch as those things will see a ton of load in a 60mph wind gust! Also with frame and panel, rain will flow down the panel and go into the groove. That quickly rots the panel unless you put weep holes in the grooves to let water out.

I trust my craft and make drive gates with no internal steel. I use real mortise and tenon construction, and maximize glue surface area. I design the infill to add rigidity. Some folks want decorative iron in the gate, so I will mortise that in and make it rigid. There has been no sag or change in any of the gates we have built.

If you use plywood panels, you can glue that in place to help make it rigid. But, filled gates have a hard tine with wind - the operators give way and then the gate flops in the wind and self-destructs. Or so I have heard.

Double tenons will double the glue surface area. Design the infill to help also with tenons and such to add rigidity.

6' is not too far. Post the dimensions or drawings and I can identify places where you can add rigidity.

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Thanks for the responses. I thought the glued 1/4” plywood would do the same as a diagonal brace. These gates are going to be used as flood gates. They are not going to hold back 2 feet of water rather just the height of the curb on street. This customer was flooded badly during hurricane Ida. Their street gently slopes towards their driveway but with the rain North Jersey got during that hurricane the 1st floor of their house was ruined.
Gates will get locking rod at center. This may be a once in lifetime event for them but they have been a repeat customer for last 20 years and I’m trying to get them a solution.

David, nice looking gates(ugly black mounting post though). Very interesting designs.
I was looking at what appears to be metal spindles in the one gate. Is there any issue with moisture getting in the spindle mortise? Or possible staining of the wood from the metal? Did you present those areas? If so, how did you assemble?
I was also wondering about the use of what looks to be western red cedar? I’ve never had luck with it as an outdoor wood for products that move or get used, with a finish on it. I’ve found it’s so soft, the first ding or bang to the surface, you have breach in the finish that lets moisture into the wood, while the remaining finished areas work to hold that moisture in.
I’m I correct in assuming those gates are light enough to negate the cedar wood fibers crushing at the joint?
Thanks, it’s always nice to learn from you.

Matt- Good questions. The spindles in the lightweight looking paired Mahogany gates are aluminum, and they are set into mortises with epoxy. They are tight fitting mortises and the epoxy seals out moisture. The rails on those gates have a crown or peaked upper surface - 10 degrees - to run water off, away from those mortises.

Yes, we have used Western /Red Cedar for several pairs of gates. We just don't get anything here but Cedar in 5x5 or larger, and clear. Doug Fir would be a good choice, but 10/4 is all we can find. Teak would be first choice, with no limits, but I don't get too many requests for Teak.

What wood (s) would you select?

Note: There was mention of using Ipe in OP's post. I would caution strongly against it. Ipe encompasses about 25 different species that all look similar. Only a few - 3 or 4 - will accept glue. The others may appear to be glued, but the oil prevents bonding. I witnessed a bankruptcy on this particular fact.

I can only see wood fibers crushing if a joint moves. There is no movement in these gates, so no crushing of wood fibers.

David good advice on the Ipe having glue challenges, thanks.

They may only have to hold back shallow water now, but climate change could easily make it 2' in a couple of years. We had a 5" rain event this fall, I've never seen one of those in my 69 years.

Al,

After following this for a few days I reread your original post. My apologies as I completely lost sight of the 1/4" glue in plywood with a floating T&G face part of the plan.

I actually like that idea but would suggest stepping up to 1/2" plywood. I'd also look for a rot resistant plywood. Pressure treated obviously comes to mind but I'm not sure how that would look on the back side of the gates.

Also while I think cedar will be fine for the gates in general as long as you can deal with water penetration at the grooves etc. it might be wise to go with something like sapele for the bottom rail. This will also help with the water issue on that upward facing bottom groove.

Finally I'd go with an epoxy like West System for the adhesive.

I take it that the bottom rail of these gates will function somewhat like roadway curbing. It will direct flowing water along the face of the bottom rail as vs. acting as a dam for inrushing water. I suspect nothing shy of sandbags would stop that.

Good luck,
BH Davis

BH,
We will be pouring concrete that will have footings length of driveway opening. On each side of this will be brick piers also with footings. The concrete will either have a step or I will add a metal strip that will act as the door stop. I doubt the water ever reached the height of the curb but if it rose 2 or 3 inches their driveway got most of what was on street. You really would not think this street was prone to flooding but their house is just less in grade to rest of houses on street. I have been thinking T-111 with the 4” groove spacing on 1 side and cedar tongue and groove on street side. So I would be gluing t-111 in groove instead of 1/4”. I should also mention homeowner asked if I would have those spring loaded gate wheels on each gate. As much as guys like us hate those type of things added to our work they do add protection against sagging and in this case would not be visible from street.

David, I usually like South American Mahogany for my outdoor paint grade work. I seal coat it with epoxy, then prime and paint.
My area has beautiful summers, and hard winters. Alot of the high end clientele around here is up for the summer months and partying. I can see their kids or friends riding the gates or horsing around on them after a night at the bar to stress them, or an ice storm or the snowplow weighing things down.
BH and Al, I like marine grade plywood like okoume, or hydrotech. Paints up nice and much flatter and consistent thickness than treated plywood. Also about the same cost.

Ipe would be a terrible choice for a gate. It is very very heavy and has no redeeming properties other than it being effectively rot proof.

People often forget about MDO plywood. It's very high quality, reasonably flat, and strong. Rot proof enough they use it for signs. It's available in 1/2" which would be good for your gate bracing.

We would use either spanish cedar or regular cedar for a gate as you described.