Guess what? I have nothing to loose as all of you have nothing to loose towards me anyway. So let me tell you why no smart person wants to work for you.

Woodworking is one of the most behind in thinking industries I have ever encountered. Any steps forward made in any other sphere of employment will either a)not be read by our people or b) be criticized heavily by our people.

As if judging the situation changes it. No old man in trades that owns a company will likely take two seconds to second guess himself. He'll get angry at people, machines, the govt, the air around him. ANYTHING before taking a good look at himself. Then He'll come on to this website to find other old angry guys to wra wra wra him and justify the fact that he cannot reach a worker because hey--- all the workers in the world must be Fd not to want to work for him for cheap. Take his mood swings, low pay, and THANK him daily for the God-like graciousness that he has given to people to work in his dusty disorganized WIP stacked hell shop, for the lowest salary in all of trades.

Please, someone, again, post a thread about why o why, no young kids stick to this. You could not keep a smart young kid if your life depended on it.

Most sincerely, KMA, I'm going back to school in two months.

I truly hope you find happiness. Good luck with that.

May I suggest you hire yourself and start your own business? You are unlikely to find the perfect position where the business owner will hire you, turn over the keys, and get out of your way. There is a ton of empty space and decent equipment out there to be had cheap. Just prove all of us idiots and do it, since you already know how screwed up we all are. How do you think many of us old guys got here? Here is an old guy expression: put up or shut up.
I for one am tired of people ranting how everyone else is wrong and he or she is right without any regard for others, and unwillingness to collaborate.

If you are not willing to endure the day to day drudgery of business, maybe the best job for you is to become another talking head in the media. A job where you can get paid to incite others, something you seem pretty good at.

Mel,

I rarely post on the woodweb. Maybe once or twice a year. Tend to find people critiquing others spelling and grammar then going on unrelated political rants to be pedantic. Just review it from time to time. But I figured I'd respond to your very passionate message.

I've noticed your smart and aggressive. It seems that you want to change and or conquer the world and that's great. The challenge becomes for anyone, man or women, young or old, no matter what industry, how do you do this? If you can see how things should be, then how quickly can change be made and how can an individual employee affect that change?

It seems to me that no matter who you are, in any industry or profession, if you want to make a difference and change the way other people do buisiness you need to be an extremely effective, rational, savvy and effective communicator. You need to be forceful while still being tactful. Your understanding of people's emotions and motivations needs to be second nature. People are resistant and scared of change. People get into a groove that could be good or bad and they want to stay there. If you want to make changes and but can't back it up with patience and a toolbox of interpersonal talents then you will end up frustrated and mad. In turn the people that you are trying to help will become defensive, annoyed and tired of your input.

I believe that the irony of it is that you are not much different then many of the bitter and angry cabinet shop owners. Your both fighting an uphill battle, the cabinet shop owners may not have the skill set to effectively run a business and are frustrated, you see the error in there ways but don't have enough patience, tact or persuasive powers to make changes that are necessary so your frustrated.

So my advice to you is follow the path that life takes you on. Learn and grow as an individual. Understand that change is hard to institute no matter what the circumstance. Realize that the world reacts slowly or not at all. If you want to be effective, gain the skill set to do it and find an environment that fits. In the end take these experiences, learn from them and use them to grow. Don't become bitter and angry like those that you are critical of.

Mel you set yourself up for failure by going in with your attitude that you somehow are the answer of something they are not looking for or wanting to know .
You the basic FNG seem to expect everyone to bow down to you when you have not proven yourself to be anything except a complainer and we all know that tends to permeate throughout a crew and have few positive effects in the long run.
So to us shop owners of 20-30-40 years of working in an atmosphere you described as an disorganized hell shop.

Like pro sports only a small percentage of new shops make it so for the ones of us that have stayed the course we are not likely to take kindly to advice from someone who has not seen what our eyes have seen.

Going back to school is a very wise choice .Good Luck in the future .

As one who was openly "on your side before" let me speak plainly. You've shown your true colors and please don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

You'll find most companies and situations to be the same, for the problem is not the companies who have made it and proven themselves. Those problems that keep following you from job to job, from shop to shop are inherent in you. Life is hard. Work is hard. Nobody appreciates you.

Grow a pair if you want to work in a man's world and deal with it like a men have done for centuries.

Welcome to the real world you spoiled brat that only first world wealth created by a fractional reserve debt fueled soon to go bust and feminism combined could create.

To think I spent several posts and a couple hours of my life defending you before...well lesson learned on my end. Thank you.

Long ago, I quit listening to anyone standing on the fringe, with all of one or two years real experience in a shop, and 20 to 25 years experience on the planet, that roll out some sort of world worthy evaluation on whatever subject they want, not knowing that what they do not know far outweighs anything they might have learned. I no longer suffer fools lightly.

No doubt, some days, I am the cranky shop owner grousing about whatever. The arthritis may be acting up, or that damn knee. But the real difference is that I am there, every day (5 days a week mostly) turning out product. Real product you can see and touch, that has value.

Obviously I do this for money to live on. But in a much larger sense, I do this for me. For my mental health, for my physical health, for my sanity. I know what you don't know - what plenty of others around here know, and others are learning. I know this is the finest way I can spend my time in this life. Making wonderful things out of fine woods, with real joints, good design and such is a higher quality life than I could ever imagine, with depth and purpose and challenge unlike most folks will ever know..

You again don't yet know, and will never know, if I read you right, that real craft does not change thru the years or even the centuries. The iron monger still hammers beside his forge, as he did centuries ago. The potter is throwing mud, unchanged for a very long time. The woodworker eyes a plank and tries to find the best way. As Nakashima said "the soul".

This is what is really going on behind the bent back, the dust and noise, the low wages. A sense of being, presence and quality that makes for a life of purpose, well lived. You just can't see it.

I normally don't respond on these threads but here goes. Young people in general have never sweated there a** off making something that will outlast them on this world. Until someone teaches, guides, bullies them into doing it the first time they don't understand what it is or what it means to do it. Through experience as stated before it then becomes a passion for some, a living for others. But a lot of us really enjoy what we do even though we complain, grouse or just plain bi%^h.

With 25yrs in, I've been through my share of the younger generation, and yes I've been angry......
Angry for having grown men (19-30 yr olds) show up at my office, driven by a grandmother or baby mamma, to inquire-"You don't need any help do you?"- posed more as a statement than question.
To which I reply-"As a matter of fact I don't."
If, in desperation, you agree to hire one of these bozos, then the real drama can begin.
Tardiness, absenteeism, court dates, car troubles, and on and on....
The younger crowd by and large wants to know "What do I get, NOW? and "How can YOU help ME in my self inflicted dileema?"
What are YOU doing to help your employers company?
Ask not what your employer can do for you, ask what you can do for your employer.... everybody moves up

I had to laugh when I saw this. Mel has been absent for awhile and could always stir up the pot- guaranteed at least 20 comments whenever she posted. Now she has had her 2 year (at most) fling in the hellhole of the woodworking trade and has abandoned her mission of turning it into Elysium. A great loss to us all, including her. She had such potential. We will have to rely on older, if not crankier posters for extended discussions on generational conflicts and owner vs employee conflicts. Such is life. Good luck, Mel, and watch out for that door.

I will propose that this Mel is an imposter Mel. Easy to do, if you are the type.

The original Mel had a sense of humor, could see in the mirror somewhat clearly, and did show some understanding and compassion.

This Mel has made the mistake of complaining and sounding like a young version of those she chastises. The fact that an otherwise unique name has been co opted for reasons of what? High response rate, baiting, seeing their words in print or whatever. At any rate, consider this poster's sentence structure and writing style as compared to Previous Mel, and I think you will agree. Not too clever by half.

Previous Mel, please, please come out wherever you are.

Dr.Jekyll / Mr.Hyde will certainly ruin the shop harmony. Its best for the business; that shes faded off into the Sunset. Remember Mel, only you can prevent narcissism.

Whether this is the old Mel or a new one, matters not. The view expressed is wide spread amongst employees of wood shops. Often justifiably. I got into this, like the rest of my life, more or less by accident. I'd rather be at the bench making things than trying to run a business. Yes, the cost of entry is low, many small businesses are run by people of limited education.
I'm not convinced that a college degree is necessary to be a successful business owner. Bill Gates might even agree with me. Just like for an employee, attitude counts for a lot. I've noticed that people with very diverse experiences, education, travel, reading, friends, seem more fulfilled in their lives. So Mel, get off your deceased burrow and get lots of life's experiences. Start a new business, 3D printing is hot now. Kind of like "plastics" in the movie The Graduate.

"ANYTHING before taking a good look at himself"

Excellent advise.

"I'm going back to school in two months."

As I recall you were a woodworker for life?

This thread was cathartic for me. Excellent posts by all. The post by Dave Sochar was poetry.

All about purpose, that is always a cathartic subject.

Will the US woodworking industry die? If Mel is any example then yes, I think that the millennials of Hispanic origin are different as they are willing to work and actually appreciate the sentiments expressed here.

" I was right all along ". A sign of being a glutton for punishment is to continue on and on and on with something you know is wrong from the get go.

I hope more people change their name to Mel, it makes for fun reading and lots of posts! It makes this grouchy old man smile.

I don't think this was posted by the real Mel. I think there are lots of spectators and for some reason one of them wanted to get people riled up.

I think we have been trolled.

I wrote to the Original Mel, and she confirms it was she that started this thread, her last.

I'd love to be so glib as to say "I was right all along".

I had her all wrong. I wanted to believe the myth of the earnest Millennial, searching for a path thru the shop as well as life. Almost too good to be true - that should have been the clue.

But then I once hired a guy that in addition to being a drinking alcoholic, also was a child molester. Ended up doing life. I also hired more than one alcoholic for the job, and a thief.

And I worked for a family company that eventually had a few members go to prison for one of the largest price fixing scandals in the US.

I am always the most surprised when I realize I was taken.

Makes me wonder what the actual incident or incidents were that soured her?

Going back to school often means that someone has picked an area or a profession, to pursue a career in. I sure wish the poster, would share with us what field, what type of business, is ready to for the new and upcoming Mel. I mean an industry where the older and long term business owners are opposite of those in the woodworking industry. Ready for a freshly educated rookie to tell them how to run their operation. Could it be a Doctors office, restaurants maybe, retail stores? I would really like to know, especially from someone who has it all figured out.

This industry does not pay to keep anyone intelligent working in it. There is really not enough money in this industry to keep smart business men.... Getting an education and getting out of this industry is the most intelligent thing you can do... Good luck.

Agree - That is right - it is all about money, nothing else. Please go chase that and don't bother me with your 'burning desire' to be a professional woodworker.

I think one of the traits of youth (of any generation) is a general propensity towards impatience. There are some youth who are no doubt smart, and who perhaps think that the rewards of a particular line of work are not keeping pace with their perceived intelligence and their perceived progress in learning that particular line of work.

The problem lies in the fact that while they may be smart, they are not smarter than everyone else, and a certain level of deference has to be afforded to the person who signs your paycheck. If you are hoping to promote change, perhaps it is better to use a tack hammer than a sledge hammer. Once again, I think impatience, and the perception of one’s hyper-intelligence over that of more experienced workers and management, plays a large role.

This is an age old problem, causing some to abandon a chosen field in search of greener pastures. Regrettably, their attitude goes with them, and so the cycle starts again. If the employee shows promise and value, it might fall to the employer to recognize this situation, and address it in a firm but mentor-like fashion.

I have posed this before, but I will do so again. Would (insert your name) the employer hire (insert your name) the upstart employee? Remembering yourself, in your own selfish, arrogant, know-it-all youth, might promote a higher level of tolerance. Having said that, there are still times when you need to cut your losses against impossible odds. It is always your call, but a little patience may reap great benefits.

I think the real problem is that this is a dying industry. There is no real growth potential because of the many cheap substitutes that clients can choose from.

I've been at this business for 15 years, watched countless shops come and go. I realize the main reason I'm still around is that I'm willing to work rediculously long hours.... Most of the shops that I see that are still around are the same way.

Profit margins are shrinking by the year as
material costs rise and cabinet prices remain fairly fixed...

So, paying an employee a decent wage is very difficult. Therefore keeping good employees is impossible...

If i'm wrong about this, point out the errors in my thinking...

Mel sounds like a disenchanted angry young woman after only a couple of years in this business.
Now that she has lit the fuse by telling everyone to “Kiss Her A#@” , I hope she has the character to at least stick around long enough to read all the responses.

This year will mark the start of my 33rd year in this trade. I went to collage got a degree and decided I didn’t want to spend my working years behind a desk.
When I started out I was a smart, hardworking guy with a hunger to learn about this business.
I have worked with my share of alcoholics, drug addicts, liars, thieves and social misfits. I have had good and bad bosses and supervisors and I vowed I would be better than the bad ones when I got my turn.
The more I learn, the more I realize what I don’t know.
Now that I have a higher position I have access to a lot more information that the average guy on the bench; cost info, sales info, hours info, general info about the job before it hits the shop, etc.
With all of a couple of years in the business, as good as she thinks she is, Mel doesn’t know what she doesn’t know.
If the shop you are at sucks so bad, why didn’t you find another one?
Switching careers probably won’t be a magic bullet for her.
When I speak to my friends and acquaintances in all sorts of businesses, it that same but different all over. When she finishes her schooling and gets a job at Megacorp Inc. she may be in for a rude awakening when shareholder value needs to be enhanced and your supervisor’s boss doesn’t even know your name. At least her bad, behind the times, old man boss knows her name.
The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence; it just might be a nice paint job.
Good luck.

Man, what a bunch of grumpy old men! Behind in their thinking and not able to second guess themselves!

Well, judging by the conversation, I'll say She got that wrong.

Agree - You are not wrong about a dying industry, but I would restate it as one that is being cleaved into two segments - the low priced mass produced stuff in lights out factories that nearly are fed tree trunks in one end and wood things come out the other. And highly customized wood objects that may be modern or ancient type manufacture, with low volume and high price as their distinguishing marks. Mass production vs craft, if you will.

Many of us straddle that line every day, and I think it is and will be getting harder as society itself is cleaved somewhere or other, and the middle class declines and fades from view. Now, please, lets not get this off into a long -winded (by 2-3 people) discourse on Fed money policy or the like.

I was a college educated starter employee sweeping the floors in my first real job in a real shop 45 years ago. I read Shakespeare and met Bucky Fuller, but could not fit a tenon properly. The guy in the shop for 40 years that could barely read, with bent back and mangled hands could fit the tenon with eyes closed, but could not explain how. I tried to honor their time, their knowledge. But I was frustrated. Every day.

Fortunately, there was a mentor that knew I had a passion, and nurtured it. Mostly by gently letting me know - "you don't know what you don't know".

I had run into other before and since that had the same message for me (headstrong and a slow learner), so after a while it started to sink in.

But there are some - like Mel? - that will have to bang their head against the wall for quite a while before the light comes on, if ever. The world is full of very bright people that never found their place, since we place such a low value on it in education and society. And then some don't recognize it even if it is handed to them.

Donald Rumsfeld (former SecDef, twice) mentioned this sort of thing, as in:

Unknown unknowns.

Applies not just to the US military, but to everyone else in society all the way down to a guy on the shop floor, to include the former shop-floor girl, Mel.

Couple other things Rummy said that apply in general:

Don't blame the boss. He has enough problems.

If you are not criticized, you may not be doing much.

Huh.

"Snaglpuss" wrote above "The more I learn, the more I realize what I don’t know."

Which reminded me of Rumsfeld's observations about unknown unknowns.

But, before I posted, Sochar made his post including "you don't know what you don't know."

Which I only saw after I posted. Uncanny. This was all within minutes.

Rumsfeld was on to something. So are some guys here.

Sorry about the ranty nature of my previous posts. I'm about 3/4 of the way through a large kitchen at the moment, and am not at my best.

But I do think this industry is in trouble... Custom cabinet shops that is mainly, making kitchen and bath cabinets. I'm meeting more and more well to do clients who don't care if I make them custom cabinets or install some garbage cabinets that have nice looking doors and drawer fronts. I discuss the difference in quality with them and they say "we don't care"...

I think there is a whole new generation of people who are so used to "garbage" goods that they don't know the difference between that and quality...

They've been surrounded by this cheap crap their whole life... They live in a large house that is mainly cheap mdf and particle board... Sorry if this sounds ranty, just been rubbed in my face a bit by my last few clients... Good luck

Donald Rumsfeld (and his friends) sure gave "experience" a bad name.

I would find a different hero.

Well. Didn't that suck? You folks said no better about millenials. If you can dish it out, you can surely take it a bit.

You all said I was inexperienced. Getting experience gets you this. Some say I became what I hate? This is what it looks like from the outside. The realization that trades people are generally full of shit, and out to bite you.

Come tell me I am wrong. It's not a happy circle.

Hey Mel? You are wrong. How can I tell? Because you didn't read or comprehend the responses that aren't just from bitter old farts condemning you for being a disillusioned bumptious ingenue.

When I said that your KMA exit was a loss all around I wasn't being cute, I meant that the trade needs young people with some fire, and those people need to have enough humility to learn from those with enough experience and dedication to have stuck it out. If the practice of working wood were nothing but ill paid factory work populated with drones and ignorant, bipolar bosses I would have left it long ago. Maybe you didn't find the right situation, maybe there isn't one good enough for you.

When I said "Good luck", I meant it, but don't be surprised if your attitude leads to a similar conclusion in your next incarnation. And watch out for that door.

"They" say patience is a virtue.
I think Mel is a little impatient.
Trades people if anything are not full of "s%#t".
3 inches + 3 inches = 6 inches.
Out of square is not square.
Trades people don't operate like Wall Street derivative creators.
Having a couple of years experience and being pretty good still doesn't equal a top notch trades man / person.
I bet most people posting here, early in their careers have been in the same position as you, Mel. Impatient and working for a cranky boss / owner.
I hope your next job lets you with a couple of years of experience be a superstar, but you will still be, I bet, the new guy no matter what you are doing.
I, for one, am glad I stuck it out and ate the s*&t.
I find a lot of satisfaction in being able to take a half baked idea and a pile of raw material and turn it into something nice and of value.
I hope your new career allows you to say that too.

I will add that we live in a free society and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I know a couple guys who run commercial shops that are absolutely brilliant in all aspects of business, they are very smart and very successful. I also know of people that never went to school but were very successful because they worked long and hard. Others had education and degrees, yet they failed.
Every day in the world in every profession some people succeed and others fail. Some who have failed try again and often the second time they are successful. and vice versa.
Mel has never offended me because I am not overly concerned about what she says. The statement "Woodworking shop owner = lack of education+horrible" is a foolish uneducated blanket comment.
I am pretty sure that with an attitude like that you will find every job or profession you seek will have the same sad results.
Good luck

Mel, you are correct in that none of us could keep a smart kid. That is why my SCORE counselor has warned me not to hire one. A smart kid would see how this all works and become my competition. I would just give them a free education so they could compete against me.
However, you do not understand why this is a backwards thinking industry. It is a trade that has been around for thousands of years. One does not need to reinvent the wheel in our industry. One only needs to find someone that has done it before. That is why we prefer to look to history for answers and not to other industries.
If you are basing the wood industry on what you read on this site, you do need to go to college. College is where society teach people that did not grasp in grade school, how to learn. This is a wonderful resource for basic woodworking. Kind of like grade school for the woodworker. The cost is free and the information is general. If you are not using WoodWeb as a starting point, you are missing the value. This is were one comes to see the sign posts for the different paths. Once you find a path that looks appealing, you need to research that path. Perhaps they will teach you how to do that in the school you plan to attend.
Information in this industry is not cheap. A magazine is about $25 per copy. A good book is somewhere between $200 and $1200. A class is $800 to $3500. A group event is going to cost thousands of dollars in travel expenses. Of course, if you have time and no money, you can stumble down the path of hard knocks. It matters not what path you choose, you will pay for your education, no matter where you get it.
Yes, starting pay is low as a woodworker. It is also low for a basketball player. The number of people that have a wood shop in their garage is probably comparable to the number of people that have a basketball hoop in the driveway. Just like basketball players, there are very few wood workers that are making money. However, there are some of us that get paid more per hour then attorneys. We may not have the toys of a professional ball player. For a woodworker money is a gauge of how good we are, not the goal. Most of our money is spent trying to make more money per hour.
I am an uneducated woodworker, but I do not know of any other profession where a person living in a car can buy $200 worth of tools and have a net worth of over $3 million in 12 years.
When I was younger, I was told that pilots and engineers were good paying jobs and computer programming was a hobby. Now, pilots and engineers barely make $100k per year and the sky is the limit for computer programmers. I have 30 years to retirement and I am happy I got into woodworking when I did. The more people that grow up believing they are getting things done by pushing a button on an electric device, the fewer people their will be with a basketball hoop in the driveway or a wood shop in the garage. The fewer people in the industry means higher pay.
I look forward to the days when 90% of the wood shops only employ salesman and CNC programmers. My bench skills will be in high demand and the entrance fee to start a shop will be in the millions of dollars. People will say, “I should have got into woodworking when I was young.”
I hope you learn how to learn when you attend your next school.

Being an employee in a cabinet shop sucks cock. Making cabinets for yourself for money is very rewarding. It was a means to an end for me and many others. There were many guys I met along the way that didn't mind being a lifer and were happy/appreciative as an employee.

At the risk of being a long winded pedantic. It is incumbent on me to state the following:

The meme that the middle class is disappearing is true, the middle class is becoming richer.

People who do not have a high school education or just some college are not doing well at all. Albeit people with a trade are doing ok.

The cabinet business is highly sensitive to the economy.

The main cause of the recent downturns have been demographic.

No doubt that much of the market has now gone to China, however remember that with cheaper cabinets the market is much bigger i.e. people who could not afford cabinets before now can.

You can wallow in the beautiful sadness of it all if you want, but I recommend you consider some facts.

Even if they do seem pedantic.

BTW there is almost ZERO chance of a recession this year.

Pat,

Could you elaborate on your contention that the only reason the middle class is disappearing is because they are getting richer?

How do you define this demographic?
By what metric are they getting "richer?"

I am hoping you don't just mean they are wealthier now because color TVs have come down in price....

In deference to this thread I will not get into that except to say google the middle class shrinking because it is getting richer.

Same for demographics which I have gone over ad nauseam.

Mel,Mel, Mel- just confirmed what I thought about you. Impatient, a quitter, arrogant and spoiled. And I was thinking you might be a good one to take over my custom furniture business someday.

The reason I own a business is because I was tired of being a corporate executive and playing the corporate games. Now I sincerely love the people who work for me and all of my customers. We make their lives easier and better. All of our employees have worked here for the last 32 years. Must not be too bad.

I don't think my industry sucks at all. I don't agree that it is going the way of the do-do bird either. It is evolving and takes some adapting to but the money is still available to succeed. Good luck in school and have a great future.

Hahaha Glenn--I was impatient and arrogant 10 years ago. Now I'm impatient and arrogant with a 2 year old and no sleep. Has my tolerance for bullshit dropped? Oh yes it has. Does it mean that everyone here embodies what I am mad at?? 50/50n chance.

#beingagrownupisawful ;)

PS 6 likes--my format sucked and so did yours, but we are still talking about something real.

PS-- the only person on this thread that I would work for is Pat Gilbert. I'd take a cut in pay for a daily morning hug. Which would cause him to raise my pay to avoid hugging me ;)

Mel-
I want to start with a Big Hug.
I have enjoyed your "impatience and arrogance". I too was once young and didn't know what I didn't know. When I was younger, if someone told me I couldn't do something, I gained power from their negative comments. Even if they were right.
I still do not know what I do not know, however....
Had I listened to the naysayers in my life I would not have been as happy and successful as I am in these later years of my life.
I march to my own drummer, I value knowledge, I respect hard work.
Many of us in the business are like this.
I believe you have these same values.
I do not doubt that whatever you choose to do in your future, you will be successful.
Sincerely,
Chip Geffre

"Whether this is the old Mel or a new one, matters not. The view expressed is wide spread amongst employees of wood shops."

Ya, well said Larry.

"Please, someone, again, post a thread about why o why, no young kids stick to this. You could not keep a smart young kid if your life depended on it."

Because a lot of small shop owners won't set up system of training that allows a "newby" to gain confidence or pride. They will never open their minds to set up a "Bitchin' Ass Kicking Facility" that allows the employees to brag they work there, that is constantly challenging them or give them something to take ownership in. The owner will never take a stand and say we need to improve daily.

"Yes, the cost of entry is low, many small businesses are run by people of limited education."

The same type that is blame their spouse for lack of intimacy or employees for failure.

cabmaker that is probably the most sincere post you have ever posted. <3

Seems like the formula would make more sense, Woodworking shop owner+lack of education= horrible boss.
I spent 30 years of my life in the industry, from entry level helper to do everything shop owner. A couple years ago was the last time I even had a conversation with someone in the woodworking industry. His last words, "this is just a pain in the ass, I'm getting out of the business". And he worked in the Aspen Colorado market. Translated, "there's no money in this".
I worked hard for nearly 20 years, doing a wide variety skills in Architectural woodworking, before I even began to call myself a master craftsman. Mostly, people don't work in this industry to make lots of money, its about pride in craftsmanship. One has to get those priorities in line, or you are in for a lifetime of continuous frustration.
Of the many 1000s of craftsman I've worked side by side with, I bet over 80% of them had no post high school education. Without a solid foundation, your house is not going to be built very tall. Want to be worth more money, learn many things any way you can. So you can use stuff like trigonometry to calculate up parts lists for complex curve and angle counters and walls ect.. When you build things, 80% of the woodworkers out there can't build, then you will be earning in the top 20%.
These days, if it's simple woodworking, then someone in Asia can do it allot cheaper. If it's a one-off complex project, then chances are, not much profit in set up times for just one item. Installation, customers want perfection, real fast, real cheap. The world we live in now. That's what I have seen over the past 35 years.

Paul, absolutely education enhances any task.

But I must admit-- given what ever path I may have taken, I have been exposed to a certain type of person. I've forgotten what the world looks like outside of this. To illustrate--I was shocked the last time conservatives were elected in Canada.

I do not know a single conservative voter. Goes to show-- whatever surrounds you will dictate what you believe of the world.

The wood shop in a lot of ways has been a return to old mentalities I am not used to. Like racism being still okay and funny, sexism 30 years back, distrust of modern research, etc.

Mel, please watch this video and give us your opinion.

How to work with millennials