Message Thread:
In all seriousness, how do I get my own shop going?
2/8/17
Yesterday, I was laid off from my job in a cabinet shop and it really pissed me off. Don't even get me started. Anyway, I have my contractor's license (although, I don't even think that matters for residential) and I'd like to get my own shop going. I previously did commercial, which was a complete pain in the ass. How a residential shop gets started it seems to me is like this-A guy, who is married, works in a cabinet shop and his wife has about 100 friends and one of her friends says "Can you do this thing for me?"....he does it and all her other friends see it and the work takes off from there. The only problem is that's not an option for me. I don't have any friends that don't already work in a shop. I've done a few things for friends and family over the years, but have NEVER gotten any more work from it. WTF do I do??
2/8/17 #2: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
With the information and lack of marketing plan you have shared so far, I'd suggest you get another job. Anyone can start working in a garage, but marketing is the key to a successful business. Now if you can tell us you have a fully equipped hobby shop at a minimum, you've done estimating in a previous job, and you have 6 months of operating cash in the bank, they start getting work. Hey, talk to the guy who has 30 years of experience and doesn't know what kind of job he can get.
2/8/17 #3: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Oops, the guy has 12+ years, not the 30.
2/9/17 #4: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
With all due respect.
What Rich said, get another job.
You don't start a business without planning.
The old saying if you fail to plan, plan to fail.
2/9/17 #5: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Building a cabinet shop business is really not a whole lot unlike building a kitchen. The kitchen consists of a variety of components, same as the business. The most important component is the customer. You are going to need to have enough customers to keep yourself busy and enough more customers to keep your prices where they need to be.
The kitchen will also, for example, need to have some drawer boxes. To build the drawer boxes you either need a robust system to order the drawers or you need some way to build them in-house.
If you order the drawer boxes out then you will need to develop some mechanism to get sufficient decisions and math put together 3 weeks before you need to have the drawer box. If you build the drawer boxes in-house you will need some infrastructure in place to build the drawer boxes economically.
If you are going to hire these drawer boxes done you will need a mechanism to recruit, hire & retain workers for the drawer box department. You will need a system of manufacturing to produce the actual drawer box.
You will also need a system to train said worker to build the drawer boxes. You could go with the time honored "well, it's an investment!" approach to rationalize your shitty training program or you could ask yourself how Starbucks would do this.
This is not exactly rocket science which is good because you are not particularly competing with rocket scientists. The opportunity/dysfunction ratio in this industry provides a lot of low hanging fruit. You just have to stop thinking like a berry picker to harvest it.
2/9/17 #6: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Judging from your post , you wouldn't do well with clients . I apologize for being blunt , but I am being honest off what I have read . I believe that you came here to hear truth .
Being a great artisan woodworker cannot alone create a profitable business. There are many people out there that have less skill than an average woodworker , yet have a decent scheme going for them . Judging from what you said , you answered your own question . Your client base is your problem , you need to get another job . You should put in the time to build your name by gaining clients on your free time , nights and weekends . When you have enough backlog , and infrastructure...maybe then you take the leap .
Best of luck , this is not an easy industry to compete and excel in . It is possible and many do it very well ...but a lot of work goes into executing this .
2/9/17 #7: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
It's one of the best times in yours or my lifetimes to get good paying work in the millwork industry IF you're near a big city like NYC or LA or Dallas say. From one who just recently moved out from behind the owners desk to work in management with another shop, I'll tell you it's damn hard to find competent people at nearly every level.
If the economy doesn't totally crash again, I can't see this changing anytime soon. We all knew that this was happening, the recession just put it off to the point that now we're going to all feel some pain moving forward.
Does any owner here disagree that finding experienced and competent help is really difficult? Would anyone here take good care of a talented, hard working woodworker that pays attention?
If so, I've never met one.
The time to go,out on your own is when you realize that your wasting money working for someone else. In other words, when someone else's clients are breaking down your door and waving fist fills of money at you to do their work. It's an extremely expensive business to get into. The higher the level, the riskier it is. Try taking back 85 walnut veneered doors because the designer "doesn't like the tone" and refinishing every one to see how stiff your resolve is.
On the other hand, if you're living cheap and you have the tools and space to work, give it a shot part time and see. You'll know damn fast if it's for you or not....
2/9/17 #8: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
depends how bad you want it I wanted it pretty bad and now have 16 people on staff with a granite shop ready to start taking on some serious work
yes, my shop started with a friend f my wife wanting a wet bar. She told 2-3 friends. I now have a full time estimator
2/10/17 #9: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
- Get another job,
- takes some business classes at the local college
- take some book keeping classes at the local college
- take some marketing classes at the local college
- While doing the above, start gathering the required equipment, start saving and getting a big chunk of money in the bank to hold you until the works rolls in steadily
- When prepared, move on from your job and start your business.
2/10/17 #10: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Website: http://www.willmade.com
Start out doing home improvements. all you need is your basic tools and work out of the back of your a truck. Start knocking on doors. You are about the tenth one on here in the last year. Asking basically, the same question. They were all given, the same advice, by the same nay sayer's. The mountain is too high and you don't have what it takes to climb the mountain.
Believe me, it can be done.
2/10/17 #11: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
excellent advice....ignore the negative
I installed a lot of cabinets, crown moulding and decks while building the business.
I hired a trim carpenter as my first employee and he kicked ass regularly He can be cutting while you are installing or selling.
No matter what you do, a lot can be done in the way of staying busy and controlling your destiny w/out fear of unemployement through home improvements
Stay small, acquire great tools and stay organized
2/10/17 #12: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
What Will said, Start out doing home improvements. Doors, windows, installs etc. Spend a little money on a decent flyer and pound the pavement.
2/10/17 #13: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Interesting, another episode of the question is the answer and focus on sales.
The biggest killer in this business is the overhead of a shop.
2/10/17 #14: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
3 things
1) Constant sales
2) Constant production
3) Constant cash flow
You can't do anything without #3, the only way to keep #3 full is numbers 1 and 2.
Investing money has a risk, a cabinet shop startup is higher risk, so the invest should have a higher rate of return.
Take what you earn now per hour, multiply it by 1.4. That's about what it costs with all the FICS,WC,FUTA, HI and a ton of other stuff. That's the value of an hour of your labor without and risk.
If you are going to be the house and farm on your success then you need to get paid at leas double the rate x 1.4
Now multiply that x 2000 (hours) now you now just the labor side of the sales.
Add $50 per hour for materials and OH
multiply that by 2000
Add them together.
That's a swag sales target for year 1
Do you have 75% of that to get you through the year?
2/10/17 #15: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
If your goal is to make cabinets, the trim carpentry advice is sound. But if you want to do higher end built-ins and furniture, having a reputation as a carpenter won't help one little bit to be able to charge higher prices. I fought the "carpenter" and "woodworker like my Uncle" image for years. Especially when I started out in my basement shop. "Oh you just work in your basement? You could probably give us a better price then, since you aren't a real business?"
2/10/17 #16: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Read my book.
What it's really like
2/10/17 #17: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Perfect :)
2/10/17 #18: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
I am a recession start up. I bucked all the odds and made a go of it. I am now a true mom and pop shop(excellent sales bite and also you keep all money inhouse). (And my wife is a nurse). I was working for a shop for ten years and the recession ate him up. I was "forced" into starting my own business as no own was hiring at the time. I had one child and one on the way(just found out)just sold my house for less than I owed on it, and just leased a shop space. I was smart enough to have bought cheap equipment when available for the past couple years to hedge my bets as I saw my shop owner driving his business into the ground. I started with no work lined up and no money in the bank(but my wife was still a nurse),and I made a go of it. I am now profitable according to Paul Downs book( which is a must read). I have no clue to your market or skill set but Americans would never be free had no one said F-ck this and damn the torpedos. It is a hard life and you will work your butt off, but that is what makes us who we are. I agree totally with Pat that you must watch your over head like a hawk. You will most likely not have the expenses like a "big" business would, but always know that it is easier to save a dollar than make a buck.
2/16/17 #19: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
Get another job is the best answer so far!
To run a successful business takes more than knowing how to build a cabinet. Research what is available in your area. Don't try to go head to head with already established shops. Look for something they are not providing but there is a demand for. Niche marketing. Build a plan. Have you developed some specialized skills (& have the equipment to do?) Do you have at least 6 months living $ on hand in addition to what you will need to spend on starting up a business? You will need a good marketing plan. Are you good @ PR? Do you have industry contacts? Can you buy materials like established shops do? (Not from Home Depot!) Do you know how to price work to cover OH, new tools, learning curve ----?
2/21/17 #20: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
I'm the guy with 12+ years in the biz that rich c. mentioned. He's right. People think that all you need to open a business is the guts to make the leap, and the skills to build the product. That's what I thought when I started, and while I learned a lot along the way, it was a rough ride. I consider the $35,000 that I still owe the bank to be a "student loan", tuition to the School of Hard Knocks.
Never make the decision to start a business because you didn't like having a boss..guess what, you just have a different boss. In fact you have a new boss every time you sign a new job, and there's no telling how bat***t crazy the next one will be. Sometimes you have two or three crazy bosses who all want their cabinets done yesterday, but they only decided on the door style two days ago.
And don't go thinking that residential is any easier than commercial, it's just a different can of worms.
2/28/17 #21: In all seriousness, how do I get my ...
You've got to be super dedicated and have the ability to wear multiple hats one after the other.
The difference between an executive and a worker is there sphere of control. A worker mainly controls his immediate tools and work space. He has to be skilled and knowledgable but an administrator, executive, project manager, they have to be more able and skilled because they handle a larger environment and have a greater influence.
You need to get training as an executive first and foremost. Get that handled and then fine tune your abilities as a shop man and a field guy. You start out small with basic equipment, you can produce small pieces like plam counter tops, small vanities, etc. anything that can be made with said equipment will work. Don't over promise!
You need to utilize the telephone. Call contractors, designers, builders and just promote to them what you can produce honestly and get them to send you plans. Price as many jobs as possible. Ask for 50% down and balance on delivery, those are your terms. They are non-negotiable.
Utilize email addresses and direct mail. Send letters to a large group of GCs, designers, architects in your immediate area. Do this every week even if it means you have to eat oal meat in order to buy stamps lol. This promotion will keep the gears lubricated as far as work is concerned. You need a viable lead generation system and doing multiple things over just ONE thing, works best.
Over time, with continued tenacity you should be able to build up funds and purchase more space, better machines and go from there. Eventually hiring extra hands will come but it's not good to start out like that right away as professionals cost a lot of money.
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