To start things off; I have been wanting to start a business in my area to provide custom kitchens and cabinetry for a while now.
There is a guy basically running solo in this industry with a full cabinet shop in my desired area but not as productive as what I can be. He ( Joe) currently leases a shop from a guy for the last 25 years from (Bill) which I know well.
Joe has approached me personally to see if I will work for him as a subcontract and transition into ownership of HIS business. I have worked for him for a little bit to get a feel for how things are; first impressions were he was disorganized, had a very high lack of communication and overall just really old-school( don't get me wrong, I truly do have a respect for the way things used to be done but things don't stay the same forever and you need to adapt) so I am very leery of what the future will hold for me. Will I be stuck working for this guy knowing there is a much better and efficient way of doing things?
I have a good job as a fulltime cabinet installer that is on salary(which is basically unheard of.)
I really just want to take the lease over and start my own business but I feel that he has all of this time invested that I'd be over-stepping. I need some guidance as to what is the right thing to do?

Background Information:
20 years experience as a cabinet installer and a cabinetmaker.
Day by day I take steps to learn how to be a business owner in this industry.
Researching local contractors and creating new business relationships.

I've been reading stories exactly like yours since the early 80s. EVERYONE thinks they can turn a business around, just because they will be the boss. It ain't that easy. Custom cabinets today is just a matter of pushing a few buttons for the high production factories. It's an overused marketing phrase that means nothing. There was a time, probably started in the 50s, when big companies just made stock lines and fill strips made up for gaps. That all stopped when CNC machinery filled the factories. The CNC machinery could care less about 36" cabinet or a 36 3/4" cabinet. I would bet if you follow this adventure, it will take you at least 5 years to get back to your current salary, while putting in about twice the labor hours. Good luck to you.

J,

Before you consider this, I'd recommend reading a small book called the E-myth for contractors. If you're an avid reader, there is more to be found in other books, including the E-myth. But this is a short easy to read book that brings you the full picture. The entrepreneurial myth is that if I'm a good cabinetmaker, than I could hang a sign and a good business. As Rich said, it's not that easy. It's definitely achievable, but needs a different way of thinking. You have to be willing to be a businessman first and foremost.

So, you understand the easy stuff. Great.

Do you know how to sell?
When to adjust prices?
When to cut a poor employee loose even though you like the guy?
Can you manage money?
Can you manage debt?
Do you have a good relation with your banker?
Do you know how to say no when you need to?
Does your current wife or future wife understand you're also married to a business?
Can you keep your crap together when the fan is flinging it everywhere?
Do you now what value added means?
Can you delegate?
Can you distinguish between reality and fantasy?
Can you handle 10% of your year being in receivables?
Do you know how to lead?
Do you know how to mould an employee into a productive part of your team?
Do you know how to build and motivate a team?

Running a business is equal parts fantastic and horrifying.
I don't get to do what I'm actually good at anymore, which is build things. I run a mouse in the office, and manage relationships with accounts. Probably true of many of us that post on here.
I think if most were honest, they'd say it was way more of a challenge than they thought when they stepped out on their own. I certainly would, and I had fortunate circumstances. I'm also certain most of us on here were cocky enough to think we could do it better than that dummy we worked for before we set up shop. And we've been probably humbled to some degree.

There is a wealth of knowledge here. Even the things you may disagree with, there is value to be gleaned.

Well said Karl. Running the company is way different than just being a good employee as well. Are you ready to put in 60, 70, and sometimes 80 hours a week?
J, do you have a local chamber of commerce? They sometimes have business mentors that you might be able to talk with one on one.

What Karl said is the reason you should read the E-myth as Gary indicated

The "blue sky" ( customers) may not transfer to a new owner, but they are the most important

Contrary to what most new owners do, especially restaurants, is you should change NOTHING.

Changes should come in small does while monitoring the changes, did it Really improve things or not, leave your ego at the door

Not that you will hear any of this thread

J, I agree with all that has been said. I did not take a salary for the first 3 years after opening my company. I worked harder in those three years than I ever had in my life, fall asleep at the dinner table type hard. There are years of my family photo albums that I am not in.

There was only one person that believed in what I wanted to do, it was my wife. I think she knew I had to do it and I would give it 100% so she supported it. The attorney I hired to incorporate told me I should not start the company, I would fail. I fired him after we completed the paperwork.

Unequivocally the hardest thing I have ever done. Unequivocally the best thing I have ever done. If your plan is to have a 1-3 man company, I would not do it. It will consume your life. You are trying to create a job you would like and owning a company is not a job, not even close. If you want to take the seed that has been planted by this other person and try and grow it into something bigger, maybe. How big is the question. As big as it can possibly be would be my answer. In my opinion that is the question you have to ask yourself. Can you see yourself as that person? Can you learn all the skills to be successful? Do you want to make this tremendous commitment?
Things will happen, 911, great recession, Covid to try and take you down, will you be able to handle that? The number one rule in owning/starting a business is failure is not an option.

Owning and starting a business can be very rewarding. It is very difficult. Statistically most business's fail, don't be surprised if that happens. I started mine 5 months before 911, we nearly failed.

Good luck on your journey.

I started and ran a company that grew a solid 10% per year for 35 years, all but one year. I never worked more than 45 hours or worked a Sunday. But, we did not make kitchens. I valued our collective sanity too much.

I find it amusing that everyone always thinks they are smarter than the one who actually has experience and skin in the game. If you really think that you can do it so much better, I suggest you go rent a space buy all the equipment and go into business for yourself, you wouldn't want to buy his business it has too much of the old you don't like.

Didn't we all think we were smarter?

I certainly didn't think I was smarter. I opened a business to get out of a crappy corporate job and to scratch an itch. It took me 8 years to figure out the itch had gone away and that I was not the greatest businessman.

I'm definitely not smarter just too stubborn not to make it. In March 2013 my wife called me at 3:30AM and scolded me "you need to know when to say when". A month later I won "Best in Show" at my Main St Arts Festival gig and called her w/ check in hand "WHEN". 10yrs later I'm 2wks out from the same show, still replinishing the sleep debt; but sold 2more pcs yesterday to the same client that bought the big one at this years show! A few have said I am living the dream & I remind them I am working it. Where there's a will... there's a wife with a great career!

Hey, interesting idea for your business opportunity. I hope it all works out for you as a fellow business owner.

Thanks everyone for all of your valuable opinions, experiences and general advice. I have read every response and where I am at is; I am not quitting my full time job, but I am pushing for my brand and getting my name out there, for every job I get I give money to the current lease holder and he seems fine with this, I am organized enough to keep my materials and inventory separate from his and I know we will butt heads in the future but this way everyone wins.
Thanks again, I really do appreciate everything.

In business, you really need to be adaptive to attract more clients and provide good customer service. Now, if that person can't provide that, maybe it's time for you to have him as a competitor. Every business needs that to excel and thrive hard. I know it sounds bad because you're like over-stepping his business, but even if you won't do that, someone's gonna do that to him because that's how it is.

I guess telling him your plan and approval is one way of showing that you respect the guy and make him prepare for what to do. Good luck!

Don't knock the old folks. I bought a 20 year old custom furniture biz 21 years ago. Came from President of a marketing company with 156 employees. I do everything other than communication with paper work orders and invoices. My wife died last year and I am 73 so I will sell the biz for less than value by the end of the year. I don;t work over 35 hours a week and make a 25% gross with no debt at all. You should keep looking until you find an old owner like me that has a good business that will yield a $150000 a year owners benefit so you don't have to fix anything. I am sure with all us old guys hanging it up you can find something in your area. Good luck.