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Office Employee compensation

11/29/23       
Bryan Member

I am currently in talks with my employer about a raise. I am trying to guage my value to the buisness and would like some outside input. About the company and myself. I am going to be starting my 5th year with the company. Currently my total compensation is 113k a year
I have a company car and the rest salary. So around 105k a year salary. We do almost all commercial cabinetry with the rare residential project thrown in. We are based in the metro New York area.
When I started with the company we were doing 1.5mil in sales 4 years ago with a total of 14 people 9 in the shop 5 in the office and this year we are doing 2.7 mil in sales. There is 5 office employees. 1 drafter who started 6 months ago and is still learning, the owner, 1 purchaser, and 1 secretary/ human recources person, and myself. We have 10 shop employees including the other owner. Currently I find myself doing 50 percent of all shop drawings, 80 percent of all engineering and shop output, 90 percent of our estimating, we do not have a shop foremen so I handle any problems and direction with the shop/ cnc. I am the only one that can program the machine so i handle that as well. I do 90 percent of scheduling for all projects. And I will make the occasional delivery. i also handle any installation questions concerns changes problems punch list anything to do with the installers in the field. We currently outsource our installations. Material takeoffs are done by me as well so the purchaser can order for projects. I am also currently doing our field measurements as well. We currently use a ERP system for all aspects of projects. I learned the in and outs of this erp software for almost every position in the company to be able to teach it. And i do i have set up and tought the entire shop to run papreless. I manage our entire drafting/engineering library of products making constant inprovents to cutting operations and ease of assembly/ install. I notice and address all bottlenecks in our process weather they be in the shop or in the office. Now this is a family owned buisness both owners are in their 70's. Their son was also part owner he left 6 months ago. Said he couldnt take it anymore. The purchaser is the daughter. With the son leaving us 6 months ago. I have assumed all responsibilities he was doing estimating and project management (he was doing some of the installs to). Still even with the loss we have grown this year doing 200k more than last year in sales. That's pretty much all the information i have available to me thanks for your time and feedback.

11/29/23       #3: Office Employee compensation ...
Riley

Well you're making more already than probably any cabinet shop owner does. But your question is should you be getting paid even more based on all the responsibilities you handle? So at your current sales level you produce 180k per person per year. Seems you could justify maybe 10 percent salary increase without upsetting company cash flow.

11/29/23       #4: Office Employee compensation ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Jesus. You make substantially more than I do, and I have to clean the toilet.

11/29/23       #5: Office Employee compensation ...
Bryan Member

Thank you for the reply everyone i dont want to short myself and my worth.
Riley
I see you said 10 percent based off all employees and sales. Does it matter I'm doing a majority of the work? As in maybe it's 180k per employee but I'm handling 360k and they all handle maybe 160k each? Also I'm sure the owners take home is 200k salary without buisness profit so they at least make more than most i suppose.

Karl
Don't worry I clean the toilet to. I'm not above anything that has to get done. See something do something.
That's how I handle it.

11/30/23       #6: Office Employee compensation ...
Quicktrim

We do 800 k per year. Me and one employee.

I am not normal though I do all bidding , engineering, purchasing , CNC programming , shop drawings , submittals , billing , and I work about 12 hours a day .

How many hours do you work ?

I think you should be making about 50.00 an hour , what would that be based on your hours per week ?

I am curious to know because with all you are doing, I don't see how you can be working less than 70 hours a week .

50 x 70 x 52 = 182,000.00
Deduct car allowance - 15000
167,000.00

That's where my ask would be if I were you .

And yes I know that's no overtime figured in but your employer has a lot of additional expenses that you don't have as an employee.

And that number seems good for NY

If that's not enough try to go start your own shop and see how much you make first 5 years in bus.

11/30/23       #7: Office Employee compensation ...
Riley

It's a daily battle between what your worth and what you can actually get paid. Possibly the efforts you put into your work are worth 200,000 per year. But does a cabinet shop make enough profit to pay anyone that much. Nope. If there is a shop making that type of profit I want to meet them and figure out what I'm doing wrong.

11/30/23       #8: Office Employee compensation ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Bryan, how good is your credit, how much cash do you have in the bank, are you married and if so does she have a good job?

It sounds like you are like many on here. Driven, ambitious, and valuable. If you haven't considered stepping into the nightmare that running your own shop is, you probably should.

12/1/23       #9: Office Employee compensation ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

I would not ask if it were me, i would probably terminate your position to cut costs considering the coming credit and interest nightmare.

12/1/23       #10: Office Employee compensation ...
Paul Downs

HI Bryan,

Congratulations, you sound like a very valuable employee who has made a point of improving everything you touch. A shop which is pulling in $180,000 per worker should be in a position to compensate you fairly. If you are actually doing everything as you describe it, you should definitely ask for a raise. The response you get will tell you everything you need to know. By your description, if you leave they are in huge trouble. A smart owner will recognize this and be open to adjusting compensation. That could be just a salary bump or profit participation (you need to have access to the numbers for that to work.) A stupid owner will refuse to work with you - if that happens, find another job.

It would be helpful to get a little more information. How many hours do you work each week? What does your benefits package look like? How long is your commute? What goals do you have for yourself over the next 5 years? And what do you think is fair compensation for what you are doing?

12/1/23       #12: Office Employee compensation ...
Bozzy Member

It sounds like you run their whole business and if you left, they'd be up shit's creek. With owners that old and no kids interested/capable of taking over, you're all they got and if they're reasonable people, it should give you a lot of bargaining power.

I would ask for $175k salary or profit sharing where you are making at least $150 and can reach $200k+. There is a huge risk for them if they let you go and hire someone for $110k. That person will take a very long time to get familiar with the business and might not work out. If each owner is making $400k, and in their 70s, why would they want to rock the boat?

12/2/23       #13: Office Employee compensation ...
RichC

My son gets contacted by head hunters all the time. He changes companies carefully and that is how he climbs the ladder. Have you gotten any other offers? If you haven't, better step lightly unless there are a lot of openings in your field.

12/3/23       #14: Office Employee compensation ...
Derrek

You’re in a great position and it sounds like you are an important part of the business. If you’re as good as you say, and situation is as described I wouldn’t be asking for more money, I’d be asking for ownership. You’re in a position to takeover a company whose owners are in that time of their life that they start looking for an exit. As an owner you can participate in the benefits that come along with that including financial, tax wise and control and direction of your career.

12/3/23       #15: Office Employee compensation ...
Adam

When people say I make X amount per year, the first question should be for how many hours. $100k for 40/hrs is a lot of money in a cabinet shop. $100k for 80/hrs a week is like having (2) $50k jobs.

The business has two options raise your compensation or lower your hours. They have to do the math to figure out, which option keeps the business in the same position going forwards.

If I was the owner, I would be very concerned that the whole business could fall over if you choose or have to leave(health, family issues). Burnout is a huge problem in those kind of jobs.

12/5/23       #16: Office Employee compensation ...
Oggie  Member

In my limited experience being an employee, salary (or its increase) is very rarely an objective thing, but rather a function of an employer's mental coordinates; his/her perceived value of your work (some may think they are doing you a favor for employing you, even in circumstances like yours), your replaceability on the current market, insisting to pay a market average price for your position (regardless that you're delivering above average quantity or quality of work) and so on. Try to figure out where are owners mentally. Tread carefully and have a plan B.

12/11/23       #18: Office Employee compensation ...
Riley

Have you had any conversations with the owner? Any positive or negative feedback?


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