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Subject: Re: Design flaw ooops...


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Message Thread:

Design flaw ooops...

Steve Member

I had quite a surprise when installed these cabinets the other day! Any creative or hardware solutions that might help? I could just hinge them on the other side but it would make the knob placement a little odd ball. Over 3" would have to come off that door to make it work with a blum 86deg. angle restrictor. I'm still cussin....

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5/19/15       #2: Design flaw ooops... ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

put the hinges on the taller side of the door. Thats a whoops! Made a top in solid surface last week that i could not get into a room. Had to cut it and re-seam it in place. Happens to the best of us.

5/19/15       #3: Design flaw ooops... ...
Mark Vierno

Maybe attach the doors to a shop made, pull-out spice unit or similar?


5/20/15       #4: Design flaw ooops... ...
Dennis Bean  Member


I'm probably (definitely) venturing outside my area of expertise but the topic caught my interest.

Would it be reasonable to do something like this? It doesn't seem like you would loose much usable access to the cabinet.

I also like the pull-out idea.

Ok, back to my own work area....

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5/20/15       #5: Design flaw ooops... ...

Or, you could hinge the top "fixed panel" also but on the opposite side and place a fixed shelf to divide the two sections.

5/20/15       #6: Design flaw ooops... ...
Rich Kuban Member

A pullout would have access only on one side. Is the radius shallow enough the doors above the micro open sufficiently? Would have been well thought out if the sides and center were hinged on the other side, then mount knobs on the center of the rails.

Wondering if the geometry works for a pull down door as compared to a lift up door.

Dennis, your idea is interesting except your proportions are off. If the cabinet were longer, your idea would have more value.

IMHO, I would prefer hinging opposite.

5/20/15       #7: Design flaw ooops... ...
Dennis Bean  Member



This is what I was thinking. (Here I go again, outside my box).

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5/20/15       #8: Design flaw ooops... ...
Dennis Bean  Member

Website: that I see it here, I know what you mean about the proportion.

BTW, I was at your shop last week with Paul from Salice....small world.

5/20/15       #9: Design flaw ooops... ...
Mark Vierno

If you hinge it on the opposite side, you still only have access from one direction, strait in.

Also, when you take into consideration the brick wall and the door that opens to 110 +/-, you will be reaching into a deep, narrow space to access anything in the cabinets (it looks like it is 24+/- deep).

And finally, what are you going to do with the 35mm & 8mm hinge holes that are already bored in what would be the wrong side? Anything other than a re-make of the door runs the risk of looking bad.

If necessary, a complex pull-out with the doors attached, could be designed that still allows the doors to be hinged to gain better access, although they would still have to be limited to prevent any accidental contact with the brick. The OP has used inset euro hinges, so they could be changed to full overlay hinges to gain 17-19mm of space for some sort of modification to overcome this challenge. I already have a design pictured in my mind that would work, but would be difficult and time consuming to put into words and in the long run, probably not be cost effective.

At the end of the day, I would go for the simple solution of a standard pull-out.


5/20/15       #10: Design flaw ooops... ...
Tom Gardiner

Do you have stove to M/W clearance room to drop the whole gang of cabinets and add a scribe to the top arch enough to allow the doors to swing?

5/20/15       #11: Design flaw ooops... ...
Mike Fuson

My thought was along the lines of what Tom just suggested, drop it down and re-trim the top.

5/20/15       #12: Design flaw ooops... ...
Rich  Member


Can you have the door pivot up. You would loose some space in top of cabinet but it should work, you would just need a stay to hold open.

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5/20/15       #13: Design flaw ooops... ...
Steve Member

Thanks for all the input and creative solutions!
I'm going to meet with the customer tmrw and show her what its like if i hinge it on the other side. I did a mock up and its not a problem accesing the side cabinets at all from the range area. The only issue is the knob placement.....

5/20/15       #14: Design flaw ooops... ...
John Langley

Used Touch catches or finger pulls with the knob on the hinge side

5/21/15       #15: Design flaw ooops... ...
Rich Kuban Member

Nice suggestion John!

Yes it is Dennis. Hope you had a good visit.

5/21/15       #16: Design flaw ooops... ...


A few things...

1. Couldn't he use a 170 deg opening hinge mounted on the tall side to gain more accessability?
2. If he's not familar with doing touch up, you can hire a refinisher who does onsite work, bondo the holes, use blendals, aresol a base color, then toners, seal with a sanding sealer, come back with graining pencils.

I spent many years being a custom cabinetmaker and now i work for a refinisher doing in the shop and onsite touch up and repair. I wouldn't trade the experience I've gained for anything.

5/21/15       #17: Design flaw ooops... ...
Mark Vierno


I guess a 170 hinge might work, but it looks to me that the doors would hit the microwave. Also, have you seen a 170 inset hinges? They are massive articulated contraptions that have too much slop in my experience, but hey if they work and the client is happy, I see no reason not to use them.

There is no doubt acceptable touch-up could be done to the resulting unused hinge holes, but I would venture that it is beyond the talent of most cabinetmakers, and to involve another trade would only raise the price of what could be a simple modification.

When I am faced with similar situations I always look for the simple solution that will cover all of my bases.


PS: I am not a fan of finger contact on cabinet doors through finger pulls or touch (and then grab the door) latches. I have seen too many instances where the finish is ruined over a short amount of time because of this. Sorry John, Im going to have to disagree with you on this one :-).

5/21/15       #18: Design flaw ooops... ...

What I'd do: Remake the doors and an upper fixed panel. 165 degree hinges are a bust, sag in a short time. Touch latches tend to go out of wack also. No use compounding the problem.

5/21/15       #19: Design flaw ooops... ...


Being a cabinetmaker for the past 21 years, i would totally agree with you. Until i had this opportunity to work for a refinishing friend that I use to work for when I was 18, i too struggled with color work.

After speaking to other trades people who do a form of remodeling that deals with woodworking, along with homeowners and other cabinetmakers, people who can successfully do touch up and repair is "a dying art" and there aren't many people left. Here in Chicagoland, there are only a handful of refinishing shops left.

I'm thinking about advertising my touch up and repair services on Woodweb, to try and build a different type of business, so I won't need to lug 100lbs sheets of wood on the tablesaw when i get into my older years.

5/27/15       #20: Design flaw ooops... ...
Glenn Pope

repairing the holes to hinge on the other side should just be a matter of plugging, filling, running the doors through a widebelt, and repainting. I think the split door idea is the nicest solution, even if the top part doesn't open. A small gap between them may not be very noticeable, or objectionable.

6/18/15       #21: Design flaw ooops... ...
Mark Vierno

What ever happened with this? Pictures of the repair/rebuild/modification?



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