Message Thread:
Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets
9/22/20
Ok, here's my problem. I'm a woodworker with many years experience making custom furniture. I've taken a job for a whole house of cabinets. I've already completed the vanities, utility cabinets, etc. The plans call for floor to ceiling cabinets across a whole wall, no counter top, just cabinets and a refrigerator. and they are the FULL DEPT OF THE FRIDGE (approx 28" deep), (see pic I made from Cabinet Planner software, which may not be the final design). The wall is 156" (13 ft) by 10 ft. tall.
So, how do you join the faceframes for a seamless (or near seamless) monolith look. I plan to spray all cabinets with a pigmented catalyzed lacquer, so I prefer to do it all in the shop.
Some specific questions:
- do you use narrow FF at the joints?
- do you ease the edge (slight grove) at the joints rather than trying to hide them.
- how would you build the boxes, i.e., I was thinking about 4 tall vertical cabinets 28"-30" wide and one over the fridge, (30" x 115" x 28" deep would be some large cumbersome cabinets to build, finish, haul, and install) or how could I make multiple stacked boxes, etc.,
I'd appreciate any help I can get, and especially like to see pictures of your work for similar projects, and some close ups of joints.
Many thanks,
Dave B.
View higher quality, full size image (2016 X 1512)
9/22/20 #2: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Website: http://distinctivekb.net
i'll be the 1st to respond and just say that one option is to screw the cabinets together in the shop (laying on their back )before finishing, sand the face frames then finish as usual. When you go to install you will have perfectly mating face frames and predrilled screws to speed work on the jobsite. Also if you use full overlay doors you could keep close consistent gaps between doors thus hiding the joint. just make sure you use the right hinges that open within themselves.
9/22/20 #3: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
For many years I tried to hide all joints. But for the last few years I have started easing the edges to create a very shallow line between joined cabinets. It’s actually a nice look
9/23/20 #4: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Make cabinets 6, 13, 1 a single cabinet
Same with 7, 5, 12
8,10.14
9, 11, 15
Then you can just stack them with a horizontal line to deal with. Cover it with a bead or nothing. Same with the other cabinets.
9/23/20 #5: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Why not build them frameless and just stack boxes ? That way there's no face frame seam deal with .
9/23/20 #8: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Website: https://www.csaw.com/lamello/p-system/lamello-tens...
Just thought I'd throw this out there for consideration: One of the main applications for our Lamello P-System connectors (and specifically the Tenso P-14 with pre-load clips) is for flat-finished, flat-packed, site-installed, monolithic face frame construction. One of our customers says it best in the video below, but call me at 781.585.4364 x.206 to discuss further if you'd like. Colonial Saw is the US importer and master distributor of Lamello.
Lamello on Instagram
9/23/20 #9: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
First of all I would build the cabinets 24" deep because any deeper is impractical storage. I would build beams of plywood 4 x 4" section and screw to the wall to mount the cabinets to.
I would raise the upper cabinet line to the height of the fridge opening to achieve a consistent horizontal line. If you are concerned with a seam being visible you could add a bead at that horizontal to hide it such as a bead.
You would end up with four face frames applied onsite - upper and lower bank of 3 x 2 cabinets to the right , 2 x 2 cabinets above and left of fridge and two lower cabinets to left.
9/23/20 #10: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
If you normally use 1.5" stiles uses 3/4" where that come together so all door revels are the same. Hiding joints is not a huge deal most people will never notice.
9/23/20 #11: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Even if you need face-frame look, I would build frameless cabinets with oversized doors that protrude beyond edges of the cabinets (not a problem for upper and lower edge, and I think hinges exist for more than full overlay), and then I would put horizontal and vertical beams between cabinets during the installation.
That way, doors would cover seams between cabinets and beams, and the only seams visible would be short lines where vertical beams meet horizontal ones, provided that the horizontal ones run in one piece all the way from left to right.
See the quick sketch on pictures bellow for details (I omitted vertical beams for clarity).
View higher quality, full size image (2167 X 1352)
View higher quality, full size image (2167 X 1352)
9/23/20 #12: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Also, I think the design would look nicer is all the upper cabinets have same height and if the fridge is in the middle, if possible.
9/23/20 #13: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
There are so many ways to do things, what I have done depending on design is to stagger the cabinet depths where they come together. Then wrap your crown molding around the face for a very nice look. Good luck
9/23/20 #14: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
What D Brown said
9/23/20 #15: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Follow Leo’s cabinet layout. It’s always easier to build long units vs tall.
Pack the wall out so you can use standard 24” deep cabs. It will save the customer $2k in plywood. They will barely use the 24” depth.
Two basic options with the face frames. Easy option is to frame each unit then add a little astragal trim piece. The harder option is to temporarily fix the cabinets together in the shop. Apply your face frames so that the upper units frame over laps the lower. You glue, screw or nail The frames on. Do not glue the overlapped joint or butts. Let it dry. Sand it all flat. Disassemble, paint install. If done properly this will look really good. We do this with bookcases all the time. Even beaded face frames.
9/23/20 #16: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
Thank you all for time spent composing such thought provoking solutions. You guys are amazing, I always get great ideas from this forum.
Leo G. I think your idea for combining cabinets is spot on. Makes sense to me to build them horizontal rather than tall, as you and others have also suggested.
Good idea to raise the line of the second tier to be even with the fridge. I'll try to get the customer to live with the 24" cabinets, we'll see how that goes.
Tom Gardner, I'd love to see a pic. of the bead you you suggest, is it an integral bead routed on the FF, or applied?
Oggie, I think your on to something with the doors covering the seams, I just need to think through it some more.
Adam, I like your idea to let the FFs overlap, I'd love to see some pics. with details of how you do that.
Again, thank you all for your input.
Dave
9/23/20 #17: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
I think between my idea of long horizontal cabinets and Oggie's overlapping door idea would make the horizontal line between cabinets nearly invisible.
9/23/20 #18: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
First thing to talk to the customer about is a library ladder rail in there somewhere with a rolling ladder so they can even use the top cabinets. Second is make sure you don't make a full height cabinet, or you may not be able to pivot it up at the install without the corners of the cabinets getting stuck to the ceiling and floor. I usually do a ladder toe kit, so I can have shorter cabinets to tilt up and then slide onto the installed and leveled toe kick. Then add the crown.
9/24/20 #19: Floor to Ceiling Wall of Cabinets ...
I recommend that you buy the Builtin Furniture book. It’s got good ideas and plenty of pictures.
Don’t forget to keep the top rail a couple of inches lower than the ceiling. Let the crown cover the space. It makes it easier in the install and saves material. Likewise think about the edges if they need scribes.
As to materials. Avoid painting the boxes. Get yourself some prefinished maple plywood. Paint the frames seperately. Install them after building the boxes.
Painting boxes sucks, costs a ton of money, and is not as good as the uv ureathane.
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