Hi ,

Yesterday I went to finish up several built-ins I did for a client . All I had to do was install the handles and knobs. Was trying to get it done before clients got home from vacation and then spend New Years Eve afternoon with my family.

Anyway, six hours later I was losing my mind. The handles they purchased were from Pottery Barn. They appeared to be brass but not sure. The breakaway screws that came with handles were not helpful since the breakaway points did not correspond to where you would need to cut them for any standard installation. There was only about an 1/16" to an 1/8" of threading inside the handles , so I had to cut the screws at the perfect length which was a pain in the ass given I am a woodworker not a machinist.

But that wasn't the worst part. Maybe because it was cheap brass or because there was so little threading inside the handles, even when I had the screws cut to the perfect length and had rethreaded them with a nut, I couldn't tighten the screws enough to snug up the handles without the screw just stripping out and spinning. The second I put any torque on the screw it would just strip out. All tightening was done by hand with a screw driver.

Of the 22 handles I was able get 6 tightened properly. Another 12 are stripped out. I gave up after 18 and went home with my tail between my legs.

Has anyone ever had this issue before? Am I correct in telling the clients that the handles are defective and that they need to order different ones? Luckily it's a 3" spread so there are lots of options out there. Is there any way to salvage the stripped ones? What is causing this ?

Appreciate any insight and Happy new year

Ouch
I think you are not responsible for cheap handles wrong threads. But trying to make it work you are responsible. The big danger you have is that some items are hard to replace because of supply change issues.
I use my own handles I sell to the customer I explain mine are lifetime guaranteed and their website with amazing pitchers of the handles.
Handles sometimes can make a project look cheap so I explain and sell 90 percent of my jobs with my handles .
Last note my handle comes with 2 sizes of screws length that can be cut very easy

What is your idea of the perfect length of the bolt? It really only takes a couple of threads to hold on a pull. Not disputing that the threads could be too short in the hardware. I don't fuss about it, I just start a tap into the threads and if I needed more I'd choose a bottom tap to get a couple more in the bottom of the hole. A cut off wheel in a 4" grinder is much better for trimming screws than snapping them. There must have been a ton of cabinets to use up 6 hours!

I'd personally never install or be responsible for any owner supplied hardware. The few residential jobs we do the homeowners never want to pay for even half decent quality hardware (Hafele or equivalent) because they shop on Amazon and see what they think are the same pulls for 1/3 the price (Im talking like $2 as compared to a $6 brushed stainless bar pull from Hafele)

In those cases I tell the customer we will supply a drilling guide for them to install their own pulls. Most then opt for what we will supply but last year one opted for the guide hell bent on saving money and then came back asking for re-make on 2 doors because her husband drilled 2 uppers for pulls on the hinge side of the door lol.

Most mechanics I know wont install customer supplied parts for this very reason and we dont either.

I feel your pain especially right at the dead end of a job to be in a horror show like that but I wouldnt feel any responsibility for the pulls whatsoever. I would just explain to the customer that this is the way everything is going in the consumer market and you did the best you could an they are going to have to take it up with their supplier. Period.

Pulls can take quite a beating and I would never rely on just a couple threads of engagement even with high quality undermounts.

In my GC days it was completely common for homeowners to try to supply their own parts, faucets, hardware, lighting, thinking they were going to beat us or our sub's at the millions we were making on mark-ups on said items sourcing them a the home center or internet. It was expressly in the contract that any issues with regards to owner supplied items whether it be late to the jobsite, defective, low quality, damaged, was billed at 1.5x labor rate. We show up to install your XXX and its damaged, parts missing, cheap, not what you wanted, we are still getting paid for the day. Virtually no one took up the chance.

Lesson learned. Change your contract in the future. If they are supplying hardware it has to be delivered to you at your shop the day you start the job or dont allow it in the first place.

I agree with Mark. We always explain to the customer that they are responsible for their hardware, if they are not willing to use what we recommend. . We will drill holes for location points only. We will not install anything that we know is lower quality. Problem here is you accepted the challenge and now you have to make it right...if you are concerned about your reputation. We tell customers from the onset that we build quality and will not use lower quality products or build anything that is destined to destruction. Eat this one and learn from this experience. It's not all bad.

I install HO supplied hardware all the time. On rare occasions I have issues. I have no problem telling the HO to buy extra. And if I have an issue with the hardware I'll let them know. I'll install what I can and tell them what needs to be replaced.

Don't make it your problem because it's not. You are not responsible for faulty or defective products. Just tell them what was purchased was defective, show them the problems and make suggestions as to buy more of the same or choose something else.

I have a clause that says I will installed HO supplied hardware if it is available at the time of installation. If it's not available a trip charge and a fee per hole is charged. This would come into effect for defective hardware if I had to return to install it. Normally I would drill the remaining holes since I had the jig and positioning of the hardware holes. They could install the replacements when they came in.

I am competent enough to be able to put a screw into a threaded hole and turn it til it's tight. It's very obvious that something is wrong with the hardware if I can't perform this extremely simple operation. I will not be held responsible for defective hardware that I didn't purchase.

Thanks for the responses and yep lesson learned. I'll take a crack at re-tapping one of them and see if that works otherwise I'll ask them to order more or a different type. I think they were only $7 a piece so it shouldn't be a big hit.

In the past I've steered clear of providing the hardware since there are so many different options and sizes out there it wasn't something I really wanted to get involved with . But it might be not be a bad idea to start providing my own or at least steer clients towards quality ones.

I'm guessing those who provide their own hardware stick within a brand like Emtek or Topknobs?

Thanks again.

Phil

...as for the screws not being the correct length, go to the electrical supply section of the Home despot and pick up a crimping tool which has a built in screw cutter. Very handy when the breakaway screws don't fit.
I have installed at least a million (or at least quite a few) handles in my life and always use a manual screw driver, too easy to spin out with a drill.

Problem with a lot of pulls now is they are metric so electric supply strippers for cutting 8-32 screws dont work.

Phil, I think most of us have experienced that frustration at some point!
The last time I went through it I decided to use a systainer to carry my handle "install" kit.
In it are my handle drilling jigs, spare drill bits, blue tape, tape measure, a pair of good quality bolt cutters, scissors, a scrap block of wood, and most importantly boxes of machine screws in different sizes, both metric and imperial.
I have found the screws that come with handles are always too short for my liking, usually are of poor quality and I hate opening all those small screw bags.

Carrying a tap is a good idea too

As far as retapping, you will have to drill a bit deeper, but not through the face, also grind the tip off of the tap.

Blind holes are seldom threaded all the way down and using a spiral flute (up-cut) bottoming tap is usually enough. Use a die after shortening screws to clean up the threads. Stocking a good selection of quality screws can save a lot of time and grief.

A lot of cheap hardware is made from zamak its very soft usually diecast, so I could see even a few threads stripping out.
I would've gave a few a try and then handed it off to the owners. Its also experiences like this that make me solve this type of problem for the next time, like the next day I would put every size metric and inch Tap in my kit and have a supply of every screw size, diameter and length you could reasonably expect to encounter next.

Issues with Pottery Barn cabinet hardware, eh? I have to admit that I never saw that one coming.