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Subject: Re: prime walnut yield

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Message Thread:

prime walnut yield

6/14/22       
JEREMY SETZKORN

I needed 26 pieces of 100% defect, knot and sap free walnut stiles 2 1/4"/ x 75" long. I It took 170 board feet of PRIME grade material to get this.
$11.70/ board foot. Walnut is tricky but iv never had prime grade that bad.

6/15/22       #2: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

That doesnt surprise me really based on my experience. Especially if your supplier is steamed material. I'd guess our average at 1 in 10 or perhaps even more for dead clear, all heart, straight grained, boards.

6/15/22       #3: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

I've never seen "prime" used as a walnut grade. Beef yes, walnut no.

6/15/22       #4: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

How long have you been a professional? Walnut has always had its own grading rules and has always taken a higher percentage of offcuts. For the last 50 years anyway. Big walnut trees are getting incredibly rare now and it will get worse. The really good logs go to the veneer mill.

6/15/22       #5: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

Rich,
We've been seeing a lot of varying grade names especially in Walnut but also in a number of other species. In Mid-Atlantic Ive seen and heard prime several times though our suppliers dont grade as prime. What Ive been seeing with Walnut is it being graded off the standard Walnut grading rule so the mill can allow more defect/sap and especially as I said when the material is steamed.

Sourcing lumber out of Ohio is most commonly where Ive been hearing the prime the most. No idea where the OP is pulling from or the thickness but at 11.70/bf I'd say its not in this area if its 4/4 because that is sky high for here.

6/15/22       #6: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

For reference:
https://northwesthardwoods.com/products/appalachian/walnut/prime/

https://northwesthardwoods.com/products/appalachian/walnut/prime/

6/15/22       #7: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

Here is even "SUPER Prime"
https://www.baillie.com/walnut-super-prime

https://www.baillie.com/walnut-super-prime

6/15/22       #8: prime walnut yield ...
Duncan Member

" him " donteth knoweth everything.

6/15/22       #9: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

He's just old and grumpy. We all get that way. Im pretty much a reclusive grump wanting to kick everyone out of the shop (that doesnt have a pocket full of cash). Is what it is.

6/15/22       #10: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

Hard to find people with a sense of humor here. When I tell a joke from now on, I'll label it so you don't have to come on and attack me. It's not like you have a lot to weed through on this site to see new content! LOL

6/15/22       #11: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

Doing more research. I find no prime listed in the NHLA grading book for walnut. So far it only appears with private companies. Does that make it an acceptable grade if only used to sell something at a higher price since there is not official rules?
This is not a joke, asking questions only.

6/15/22       #12: prime walnut yield ...
Dick

6/15/22       #13: prime walnut yield ...
JEREMY SETZKORN

Sorry guys, its listed as PREMIUM walnut on my invoices. I just always ask for prime. Yea walnut has always been very difficult but this batch not as good as usual. Very picky customer means i get a stack of free walnut lumber. Not going to try to return it because i dont want my supplier unhappy with me. Most people dont care if the back of their doors has sapwood. Thing is they are staining all these doors near black but still request perfect material. Go figure. Couple stiles were perfect except for bullets. My other supplier was $2 more per BF. I am finding big differences in pricing on hardwoods between suppliers where they always used to be really close.

6/16/22       #14: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

Always a challenge to understand some customer requests. But in this case don't worry about the price. Just mark up the material at your regular rate and let the customer pay for their desires.

6/16/22       #15: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

I'd say you didnt do too awful bad considering my experience. Just rounding up and using 4/4 as an example, 3" x 84" x 26pcs hits at 45.5BF and pulling dead clear from 170BF lands you at about 40% which is much better than our yield for dead clear/straight material. The bummer in my world is we only have the option to buy pack sizes so depending on what our mill has on-hand we may have to buy several hundred board feet just to get a pack in-house and even then its a roll of the dice and you may have to grade through that entire pack to get pristine boards. The next pack may be gold bars but its just a roll of the dice.

6/16/22       #16: prime walnut yield ...
Bruce H

I just finished a walnut cabinet project. I ask my supplier for the most expensive material they had. All in all it was good. The boards with knots I filled with epoxy and made the panels out of them. Customer was very happy. I did pay about $12.00 per board foot for the material.

6/17/22       #17: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

For panels, you don't need high grades. The short cuttings can come from #1 common if the customer doesn't mind some sapwood on the back side.

6/17/22       #18: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

This might help.

https://www.mcilvain.com/news/walnut-grades-explained/

6/17/22       #19: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

Those grading standards only apply to mills that adhere to the NHLA grading, hence prime, premium, super prime, etc.. Even my main mill doesnt grade any FAS because the yeild would be pretty much zip. My guess is they will revisit the Walnut grading again in the not too distant future due to ever shrinking supply.

6/17/22       #20: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

Funny to me that wholesale distributors can make up any marketing name they want. Makes buying tough since you have no idea about the cuttings you can get. Basically the whole point of this discussion I guess. With no rules and made up names, the future for hardwood buying is going to be really difficult. I wonder if any exporters are making up grade names for selling in Europe. Doubt it! Lucky us.

6/18/22       #21: prime walnut yield ...
Mark B Member

Its not like its a free for all... walnut is the prime suspect for all the reqsons youve directly mentioned. I think its pretty easy to see that suppliers are trying to show clearly what one can expect with pack images etc as to avoid bs.

People who deal in walnut regularly this isnt much of a shock.

6/18/22       #22: prime walnut yield ...
RichC

You win MarkB.

6/20/22       #23: prime walnut yield ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

One of the biggest problems is the trendy slab tables where we see tons of walnut getting cut and stabbed and so less available for dimensional lumber. An out fit in Ontario canada was shocked I could buy select and better shorts for 9$ bfm as his slabs were running 12$ a bf. I would buy everything he can cut if his price was reasonably in line with the market. 1 com for me is 7.85$ right now net.

 

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