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Subject: Re: Hoffman dovetail keys

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Message Thread:

Hoffman dovetail keys

11/19/24       
Mark

I have a 500 cabinet door job coming up that requirers a panel moulding mitered inside the frame. I am considering a Hoffman machine to put the dovetail keys into the frames so I can pre-assemble the frames and drop them into the opening rather than fitting 1 piece at a time.

What are your thoughts on this solution?

Thanks,

Mark

11/19/24       #2: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Chip Geffre

Mark-
Wow, that is 4000 punches to cut the slots for the Hoffman dovetail keys.
I think I would consider mitering these and assembling the frame using glue and tape for a hinge and pin the pre-assembled frames into place, using 23 gauge pin nails. Maybe make up a few frames and see what you think.
All the best to you sir!

11/20/24       #3: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Mark

Chip,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply.

Playing the devils advocate, I may have 8000 chops creating the dovetailed sockets, but is putting 4000 pieces of masking tape with glue and pins any faster?

What I'm trying to accomplish is to make it as fool proof as possible for the people that will be assembling these. It's the positive registration that I find to be the most intriguing . There could be more after this run.

Thank you once again for helping me sort this out.

11/21/24       #4: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
al

Maybe the staple machine that picture frame shops use. I have never seen one in person but it seems to me this would be perfect for what you’re doing. You could make a frame and take it to a frame shop and let them put it together using their machine. If you like the results buy a machine. I think these machines would be faster and just as good as the dovetail keys.
Al

11/21/24       #5: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Chip Geffre

Mark-
Thank you for your consideration sir.
Just to clarify- the pin nails would not be used to assemble the miters, just a drop of glue and tape, then miterfold to make a frame. When dry, the drop of glue will be sufficient to hold the frames together till they are installed in the door "frame". I'll bet if you just try and make one or two of these, you will see how well this technique works.
What ever you do, I know it's going to look great.

11/21/24       #6: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Jim Herron

I personally think the Hoffman keys are overkill
I'd use a Morso frame chopper and CA glue and activator
Cleaner, faster, and sufficient strength

11/21/24       #7: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Chip Geffre

What Jim said! I like his idea even better.
Always grateful for the knowledge of the folks on here.

11/22/24       #8: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Mark

Chip and Jim,

You've got me thinking, and it will probably save me a few thousand.

There are adhesives out there that will give me enough bonding to be able to pre-assemble and drop the frame into the opening.

I have CA glue and activator, I'm going to test between that and a couple of others.

Thank you all for your input, you are helping me clarify my process.

Mark

11/22/24       #9: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Hot glue works sweet for sticking applied mouldings in doors.

Been a long time since I've done it. I only did it a few times, so I dont have a big sample group for how they wear or last.
It went well in the shop though.

11/23/24       #10: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Joe Calhoon

I’ve used one for years to assemble Bolection mouldings and glass beads on doors. The process is very fast but be aware if you are dropping a moulding into a recess you might have to do some fitting as the frame tends to grow a bit. I slightly bevel them on an edge sander for final piston fitting and that takes time. The other advantage for windows and doors is the assembled frames are easier to finish as a unit instead of individual sticks. But that would not apply to you.
The only advantage you would have is the joints will remain tight and not separate after nailing in as sometimes happens.


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12/5/24       #11: Hoffman dovetail keys ...
Matt Member


I love the Hoffman and would definitely use it in this case.

I worked at one shop that sold doors locally and they had a Hoffman dovetailer and a monstrous Omga miter saw specifically for this. It felt utterly absurd to be cutting little 5/8" moldings on a 14" miter saw, but at least we knew the angle was perfect and the cut quality was laser-precise. They also had digital tiger stops on it.

The shop I am at now, I manage, but we don't sell doors locally. We had a couple jobs that were slabs with applied molding frames, and the Hoffman was the first thing I went to. We just cut everything with our standard miter saw, but we did have a digital SawGear fence.

It works. You can preassemble the molding frames quite easily with the Hoffman. I would never, ever try pinning or taping the frames together. With the Hoffman dovetails you don't even use glue in the miter, just hammer the dovetail in and it's going to be perfectly tight.

The time it takes to cut the Hoffman slot is negligible, and the consistent dead-on accuracy of your join alignment makes this a no-brainer.

Your real limitations here are going to be common to all joinery methods.

1) How do you cut the small parts efficiently.
2) How do you get the frames laid out centered on the doors (if they are slabs).

 

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