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Ive gone back and forth on inset door construction methods. We have double faceframed, we've used the blum inset faceframe plate that screws to the back of the frame and we've blocked out from the cabinet walls/partitions and used surface mount plates. The double face frameing is time consuming and you need to be a contortionist to screw the inset plates on . What are most shops doing?
Are you using the Blum jig to predrill for the face frame inset plate? It's pretty simple if you use that. Total pita if you don't.
One question, what is a double face frame? Never heard that term...
We build our Boxes flush with the face frame, so much easy with doors and drawer installation.
Thanks for the Blum Jig advice I didn't even know they had one. The double face frame is simply backing up the regular frame with another one that (in my case) hangs into the opening 1/2" plus desired gap allowing you to use same face frame plate as you would on a regular overlay door. Its about the same amount of trouble as building out the side walls for a surface mount plate . As far as using the Blum inset plate being a PITA ,I agree . I have had best success clamping the plate on and installing first screw hen removing clap to do second screw
I have been showing 3/8Ē of the box edge in the face frame opening. It gives a nice custom look, provides a positive stop for the doors and drawer front, and it helps seal the opening(or at least thatís what you tell the customer why your cabinetry is better).
Forgot to say I then use a Blum half crank hinge with a 0 plate. Another benefit is if itís a lighted cabinet, the light doesnít shine through the door gap.
Matt - You are correct in saying that a rabbeted inset cabinet door is a better cabinet. Paired doors also need to reverse rabbeted to stay light tight.
I once heard a woman describe her pantry doors with a gap so large, she did not have to open the doors to get many items out of there cabinet! She wanted light tight, rabbeted doors, but did know how to ask for it.
When doing FF cabinets I usually use the FF hinge plate. On occasion I can use a 0mm plate with a full crank or a 3mm plate with a full crank and an 1/8" backset.
I'll make the FFs, make the doors, fit the doors in the loose FFs and then bore the holes and put the plate and mount the hinge and drill the hingeplate while the door is fitted and laying (upside down) on a table.
The nice thing about this is it is a physically aligned hole instead of a measured hole. So if you somehow mis-bore the hole the hinge plate still aligns.
And it's also a lot easier to fit the door with a loose FF than it would be if you were to fit the door in an assembled cabinet.
So now all you need to do is screw the hinge plates on from the rear of the cabinet (no back on yet) into the pre drilled and aligned holes.
I'm sure you can use the jig to drill the holes too. Just do it while it's laying down instead of after it's been attached to the cabinet.
How do you attach the FF to the plywood? I am assuming you use 3/4" plywood. Are you prefinishing the FF first?
Alway flush ends and dividers to the inside yes this means that dividers will be doubled 3/4" but its the easiest way to do it. Then use half crank hinge with 3mm Euro plate screwed to the plywood. Over half of our work is inset doors and has been for over 10 years.
If Iím painting the cabinets, I usually paint/prime the wood parts separate, then assemble. Iíve usually pocket screw the frames on. This particular job the customer wanted continuous face frames, so there were a few extra steps. I took the painted frame and install one box, add spacer cleats, fasten to the face frame through the cleat, then ad another box and repeat. Now I add a long pocket screwed strip on the bottom that runs the entire length of the cabinet and that helps to tie everything together.
We do mostly inset. Blum hardware. Full crank hinges drilled at 22.5mm (I think)
1/4" pocket, use a 6mm plate
Our standard stile size is 1-7/8", with 3/4" box work. With a 3/8" pocket on one side, 3/4" partition, you're left with a 3/4" pocket on the other side. No ugly spacers that way.
Any combination of those numbers works, that's just our preference.
I hate those behind the frame plates and use them sparingly. They're a pain to install, (even pre drilling the holes), and they have a tendency to come loose like any screw going into solid.
We do it pretty much like Karl. We use 1.5" stiles. 90% of our cabinets are inset. 90% of those are beaded.
We build big boxes. Lots of partitions. I try to layout them so the hinge side panel is set back a 1/16" You can use 0 plates. We use applied end panels so the brings the interior panel shy of the frame.
About 15 years ago I started thinking of face frames as applied edge banding. Like everyone else we use euro hardware for everything other than real hinges(we mostly do nonmortise and half mortise hinges. The euro hinges with traditional beaded inset was an abortion that died about 10 years ago.
It just makes sense to reconfigure the boxes and frames to suit the euro layout.
We used those Blum rear mount face frame bracket things on one kitchen. I returned the rest of the box to our supplier. We hated those things.
Rear brackets are good for retrofits. So far that's the only reason I use them.