Safety Speed Cut Thermwood Corporation ECabinet Systems

Cabinetmaking

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Venner or Solid?

5/11/19       
Eddie

Hello
I have a potential Frameless Kitchen coming up that the customer wants random widths of white Oak running vertical (top drawers horizontal), and also they want the boards to be slight off on thickness on the front to have that rough look. they want the doors and drawers to be 1'' thick. I thought about glueing solid 5/4'' material with slightly off thickness to give the look they want by I'm so afraid of getting a phone call within couple weeks that some doors look like a salad bowl. So I'm thinking about in using 3/4'' MDF core White Oak, re saw solid Oak to 1/4''/ 3/16'' thick and vacuum bag together , clean the edges after dry time and run to the edge bander to hide the side joint. any thoughts? thanks for help,
Eddie

5/11/19       #3: Venner or Solid? ...
duster

Are these doors to be a solid 1" thick slab? They would never stay flat in solid wood. Gluing a 3/16" or 1/4" piece to one side would warp just as bad. The only way to do that and get a panel that stays flat, is by applying equal thickness veneer to both sides.

If it was me, I would pass on this job unless they're willing to pay a premium for the extra work and risk.

5/11/19       #4: Venner or Solid? ...
rich c.

As mentioned, 3/16 to 1/4" wood acts like boards, not veneer. Just because the wood is solid is no reason to assume it will warp. Choose narrower stock, especially rift or quartersawn. I would only do full overlay with a wide enough gap between the panels to allow for wood expansion. Once again quartersawn will limit the movement.

5/12/19       #5: Venner or Solid? ...
Tom Gardiner

The labour of resawing and pressing uneven "veneers" then edge banding and gluing up doors would be prohibitively time consuming. And I agree you are creating trouble by gluing wood that thick to a stable substrate.
Well dried hardwood, is a better bet. However you will have to calculate the seasonal expansion/contraction for the doors to ensure the don't cause problems. This might be ugly wide in the winter.

5/12/19       #6: Venner or Solid? ...
Eddie

Thanks for the reply guys, this is one of the jobs that I'll regret taking, I may steer way from this one, hate to give jobs away, but...

5/12/19       #7: Venner or Solid? ...
james e mcgrew  Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

When i turn down bad jobs i get better jobs

5/12/19       #8: Venner or Solid? ...
John Member

I'm nearly always a fool for a new challenge. I would do this job with 1/8" veneer on both sides over 3/4" MDF or BB plywood. I would rim the panels with solid stock 3/4" wide; then after the panels are veneered I trim off 3/8" on all edges to get my final dimensions. This takes longer than edge banding but looks better and is far more durable.

For the face veneer, I would mill them at variable thickness with the max. being 1/8" to give the customer the look they want. In order for that variable thickness panel to get pressed evenly in the vacuum press you have to put a compressible layer over it. I use 1/8" thick silicone rubber sheeting, from McMaster Carr.

Price accordingly. I would give them a comparative price for "normal" doors and drawer fronts, too, and hope they ultimately choose that option.

John

5/13/19       #9: Venner or Solid? ...
Keith Newton

Rather than risking the thick veneer over stable substrate, IF you do it, I would suggest only using rift and QS which takes care of the cup problem.

Then for the doors, cut to lengths and then go to the jointer and deliberately take more off the back from one end by setting the board down with the front end just on the outfeed table.

The only problem that I see with joining these tappers is cleaning the glue squeeze out down in the little corners on the face so it doesn't show up in the finish.

Or forget the glue, and even sand/round the edges a little and fasten to battens on the back the same way the old timers did it.

5/16/19       #10: Venner or Solid? ...
Larry

Some good suggestions, especially passing on this job. If you are a glutton for punishment, both sides of a substraight must be treated the same. 1/4" "boards" are going to act like solid lumber. Watch out for the seasonal changes. Quartered moves less but still moves!


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Limtech Industries, Inc. Lamello