Hi there everyone. I have been in the custom cabinetry business for 26 years. It is not too too often are use pocket holes. I have always like a castle machine, for ease-of-use and quickness. I have recently had my eye on the Kreg foreman pocket hole machine.

Last time I checked, the 120 V Castle machine, which hooked up to the air compressor, I believe was just over $2000.

As much as it is difficult to justify spending over $2000 on a machine I may not use all that often, do any of you have both of them and/or have tried both of them and what do you think? Is it worth spending the $2000 on the castle machine? The Kreg machine is like $450.

TIA.

I have an original Forman which I used for about 17 years. It finally crapped out and they discontinued parts when they switched to the new consumer model. I bought one of those and used it for about 2 weeks and bought the castle. I wish I had bought the castle 20 years ago. It’s a far superior machine. I made a few upgrades of my own. I added a fence with stops and a foot operated pneumatic clamp.

I have had both and prefer the Kreg machine by far. Castle bits dull too quickly and I found the machine to struggle to get through what a drill does easily. I have both the manual and foot operated machines and like them both. Sold the castle ages ago. Only advantage i could see was the lower angle of cut, but then it also was considerably longer as well.

The Kreg isn't worth the money. On ours the drill bit binds in the guide and snaps everyone once in a while. We bought it for one job and were able to get through, its gets pulled out once in a while now, but more often we just use a standard kreg jig.

I'd look at the Shop Fox machine for a few more dollars it looks a lot nicer

https://www.grizzly.com/products/Shop-Fox-Pocket-Hole-Machine/W1833

My friend bought one for his shop. He used it once and has never brought it out again. Consumer grade tool for sure.

We have both a Kreg larger style and 2- Castle's again the larger style.

They both work, one of the castles is OLD and it keeps going. I prefer the castle.

We also have one of these:
https://castleusa.com/products/a00013-tsm-12-benchtop-pocket-cutter-machine.html <
P>It was a porter cable brand. We used the hell out of it and it still works. I think I paid $700 +/- 20 years ago and it was the best tool investment I ever made. It cut 10's of thousands of pocket holes. Still have it and it still works.

I am going to guess once you get a pocket hole machine you will use it more than you think. In many cases we dowel things together and use pocket screws as a clamp so we can keep moving. Also some parts are hard to clamp, again pocket screws save the day. Very versatile, very strong.

We have the large air powered Kreg and the large Castle. The are not even in the same ball park. The Castle is so much more a better machine. Our castle is older but gets used everyday. The Kreg gets used once a week or less. The angle that the castle drills is better than the Kreg.

Thank you all for your opinions

Does anyone happen to know what the model number is of the electric/air powered 120V with the foot peddel?

With dust collection if possible 4” port

This one?
https://www.kregtool.com/shop/pocket-hole-joinery/commercial-machines/benchtop-sin
gle-spindle-pneumatic-pocket-hole-machine/DK1100TP.html

There is also the floor model for $400 more.

We had one of the old benchtop $700 Porter Cable Ones. 8 million holes later we bought the least expensive Castle floor model. We occasionally have to use one of the Kreg handhelds. It’s hard to argue that the Castle isn’t better.

The first thing you should do is buy a solid carbide 3/8” roughing end mill for aluminium. I bought a fancy rainbow coated one. It mows thru any material. I’ve never had to replace it in either machine.

Personally I would buy the benchtop Castle if you can’t afford the floor model.

I was able to get a used 2001 TSM-21 at an auction for 1000.00 CDN a couple of years ago. Use it regularly and never disappointed. Current model is TSM-22. Not any machines I know of that are comparable. Kreg isn't even in the same ballpark. Here's the link:
https://castleusa.com/products/a00024-tsm-22-pocket-cutter-machine.html

Check out Safety Speed Mfg.
They are getting after it on the pocket hole machines and may be a fit- https://safetyspeed.com/product-category/machines/screw-pocket-machines/

Have used all of the above... The Castle machine worked well but adjusting for different offsets was kind of a pain in the ass. The router bits would burn out occasionally in harder materials and have to be replaced and adjusted again. I was not a fan of the two direction movement either. The slots are cleaner due to the router bit cuts usually. The Kreg original foreman we had was built into our chop saw table extension and worked great for years and adjustment was relatively simple. Move on a few years and working in a new shop. Tried to talk them into another Foreman and they wound up buying the Grizzly model. Its just ok. The drilling and basic structure is fine and well built but the handle/arm is flimsy and wobbly. We tried to adjust and tighten it up but its just part of the problem. The yoke it sits on is also a bit flimsy. The machine certainly works and as long as you get it set right it will make tons of holes. Adjustment was a bit more tedious than the foreman because the plate in the table is not easily removable. It also seemed like the drill did not have the speed of the foreman but I cannot say for sure. Again the machine works when we need it but its a bit fiddly and the arm is annoyingly flimsy. Your mileage can and probably will vary. :)

Pete

The router bit is a now a non issue. They have the roughing end mills on the Castle site. The sweeping motion beat up the regular router bits. The end mills don’t care about the sweeping motion. I haven’t changed ours in 8 years.

What I've found the best for the castle router bit is a 3/8" round fluting bit. You aren't removing as much material and it doesn't struggle as much.

Sheet stock where pocket screws are required, I started punching those on the cnc. Some material, like mdf, you need to drill a pilot hole, but plywood it hasn't been necessary.