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Red Elm Cabinet Question

11/17/21       
Tom Member

I am a residential contractor that does cabinet building on a small scale. I have built several sets in oak, walnut, maple, cherry, and poplar for my own projects, as well as friends and family. I typically do a standard shaker-style. We are buying a home that needs a kitchen upgrade and I would like to use red elm this time around. I know red elm plywood is a thing, but none of the wood suppliers within 300 miles of me appear to carry any for door and end panels. I am wondering if others have this experience and what options there are? Mixing species? Elm has such a distinct grain that I don't see a good substitute. I realize I could laminate and thickness plane panels, but it seems like such a waste of material. Any suggestions?

11/18/21       #2: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
gary

We had some laid up for us years ago. One of our suppliers had it done for us. Price was not too bad as I recall. I do not remember what company it was so not much help other than I know it can be done. There will probably be a minimum amount which may be more then you need for one job. Towards the end of our red elm popularity we used solid wood door panels and five piece end panels to eliminate plywood but that also drove up the price.

11/18/21       #3: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
RichC

Solid lumber is what true Shaker is all about. Flat panel in the front and back beveled to fit the groove. Get 5/4 and resaw it for the panels and you'll get great yield from your stock. Do the end panels in 5 piece like the doors so you don't have wood movement issues.

11/19/21       #4: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
David R Sochar Member

I think perhaps less than 1% of the fabricators here on Woodweb that talk about making "Shaker Style" are actually copying real Shaker work and proportions, details, etc.

"Shaker" more often refers to: no detail, no frills, cheap as possible, probably all MDF, with only a passing resemblance to what the Shakers would do were they still in the picture.

I always thought of a Shaker Entertainment Center as a shovel and hoe.

11/19/21       #5: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
RichC

David,
Just strikes me oddly that a religious sect now is used to market simple cheap kitchen cabinets. A rough degradation of some noble people. But no different than sports teams named after people that were victims of an American Holocaust. Europeans hated the people, loved the names!

11/19/21       #6: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
gary

Tom, While the last two responses have nothing to do with your post I thought I would add something that does. One problem we ran into with red elm were tiny cracks running with the grain. They were almost impossible to notice until the finish coat went on, so look closely. Save the "shaker" terminology correction for it's own thread but I think that has been done already. We've made plenty of shaker entertainment centers, microwave cabinets, refrigerator cabinets, vanities, ect. ect.

11/19/21       #7: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
Tom

Thanks, Gary.

Yes, I certainly did not post my question with the intention of getting into a philosophical discussion of Shaker craftsmanship (Good God!), but that's the world we live in today.

I appreciate you sticking to the real subject matter. I also appreciate the useful suggestions about Elm. I have never had occasion to work with it before. I would likely take on a smaller project, like a small piece of furniture, for example, before I attack a full set of cabinets. We are under no time crunch for sure, so I have time to experiment. Thanks, again.

11/19/21       #8: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
gary

Red elm is beautiful lumber but does have it's quirks. I've built two of my own kitchens and several for others with it. Your idea of doing a smaller project first is a very good one.

11/19/21       #9: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
RichC

You guys never wander off topic a little? Cheez, lighten up. My points were about the marketing word "Shaker". It means nothing to 95% of the public. It means something to woodworkers because we know where it came from.

11/20/21       #10: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
Ed

You could contact one of the many cabinet door shops, here in central Texas my go to is Patton. Another possibility is to lay up your own, If you don't have a veneer press then you could use Heat Lock glue ( similar process to contact adhesive , but activated with an iron ) Oakwood veneer has several elm choices , and they can provide veneered panels 1/2" minimum.

11/22/21       #11: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
David R Sochar Member

Website: http://www.acornwoodworks.com

One of the alternate joys of working wood that occasionally arises here at the 'Web is seeing how the collective breadth of knowledge enhances my experience as a wood worker, a shop owner, author, and reader.

I meant no harm nor foul by mentioning the historical canon of Shaker woodwork vs what is fashionable today. I do think it important that any woodworker - professional - should know the history of the Shakers and know their work.

For some reason, we are admonished for not giving the 'right' answer, as if to not do so somehow violates some set of rules. Of course, Woodweb does have its rules, but they do not encompass philosophical dissections of language vs behavior nor do they require accuracy. The forum can self police on that.

In fact, all this may be null and void if we return to the Rules of the forum and realize the OP is asking a question about his own cabinetry. The poster is vague as to whether he is a professional in the field. We know he has built a few kitchens for family, etc, but not as a line of business, generating income, paying taxes, etc.

I myself look for stimulation and enlightenment (or should it be 'entertainment?) wherever I can. If, finding none, I might add a little interest of my own in an attempt to generate a broader discussion, rather than the standard 4 response git and go that Woodweb has become.

11/23/21       #12: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
gary

I personally would rather see a new post started when looking for stimulation, enlightenment, or entertainment. It is frustrating when I see a response has been posted to a topic that I am interested in only to find a language lesson. I realize that now I am partaking in this hijack so will respond no further nor will I start a new thread about it. Maybe someone else who is more of a wordsmith then myself can do that. It might be interesting reading.

11/23/21       #14: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
Patrick Drake  Member

Shaker,
Religious sect?
Well, what about the Moravians?
Helluva work bench.

11/24/21       #15: Red Elm Cabinet Question ...
David R Sochar Member

Gary - Others have used "wordsmith" to describe some of what I do. In order to further that, I wrote a book: "Small Shop Production of Custom Wood Doors" 202 pages, 30 photos and 28 drawings, all by the author. Published by Big Oak Publishing. Go to www.acornwoodworks/book to order the book.


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