Hi,

I've had an issue pop up on a job recently where I have had expansion and contraction issues where the rails and stiles meet on faceframes. The joint is visible because either the rail or stile has expanded outward instead of width wise. So essentially one is sitting proud of the other. Probably less than 1/64" but nonetheless it stands out. Now, I will say that I have finished other jobs, and have never see this issue, even years later but this job I noticed it after 3 months. I used soft maple for the faceframes. My hunch is that maybe when selecting boards for the faceframes, some were slightly quarter sawn (where I cut out of a larger board), I ordered all plain sliced. I also wonder if maybe hard maple would have been better, I have also used this in the past. Finally, is it the environment that the cabinets are in?

Any thoughts on this? Always trying to be at the top of my game, so would appreciate any insight.

Thanks,
Tim

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Beautiful beaded frames. Good selection of wood. all i can think of not enough glue and clamping time.
Hardwood frames have that issue no matter what.i saw even on the high end cabinet brands.
i quit wasting by time building face frame cabinetry.32 mm frameless cabinetry is all i do.
sand the proud portion and respray.Sorry.
Good luck !

Could be different moisture content in different boards in the unit, or changes in humidity in the shop. I'm like you, hardly ever have any issues, but we have AC in the shop, and encourage customers to either heat or cool, and not open the windows.

Also we always use hard maple. I feel it is a little more stable than soft maple.

I would 2nd not enough glue. If you are using pigmented coatings eventually you will see a hairline crack. Softer paints such as latex will withstand the movement, while harder paints such as CV will eventually show cracks as they age.

What type of joinery did you use?

I don't think it is the glue. To be honest, I usually over-glue a bit with beaded faceframes if its paint grade. For the joinery, I am doing a jack miter and 2-3 pocket screws. To clarify, this is not about the joint cracking. I know one pick shows that a little bit, but this is about a rail or stile sitting proud of the adjoining piece. In most spots on the job, the joint didnt crack, but is still noticeable.

Thanks everyone for trying to help me solve this.

Joint slippage using pocket jointery is common. And it still might be the glue. Excess glue acts as a lubricant if the clamping isn't sufficient.

Don't know if this changes your opinion or not. The joint was flat and smooth initially. Even after a month of being painted, all good. Then a few more months and one piece is proud of the other with no crack.

Relative humidity and moisture can cause wood movement, perhaps the home is a damper or dryer environment . As long as you sanded them all flat to begin with ? Maybe the MC was off when you made the job ?

Assuming the back sides were sanded flat at the time of build, what does the back side look like now?

I can't see the back side of the frames, so not sure. The customer lives next to a river, so maybe there is something going on with relative humidity. I'll start spot checking moisture content on random boards in the future. COuld be an issue.

Anyone have thoughts on my theory of having slightly quarter sawn pieces? I'm buying random widths maple. So I was thinking if I cut up lets say a 10" board, parts of it may be quarter sawn when I'm done cutting it up into 2" rips.

Thanks guys.

I believe this is a moisture issue. This is a common experience on exterior joinery. As you mentioned it was perfectly flat when you finished it in the shop. It went into a new environment and one piece grew in thickness more than the other. The finish is getting stretched by an increase in moisture. Most cracking occurs when the joinery is subjected to a dry environment. Each part shrinks and the finish cracks. I would use a pin prick moisture meter on the backside of the frame(back of upper face frame rail?). You could also check the moisture content inside the room and inside the cabinet.

Based on your description of the issue I'd suspect a change in humidity is causing moisture issues within the parts. The rail and style were cut from different parts of the board or different boards and do not have the same moisture percentage at the time of assembly. I find that material I have had for six months behaves differently than fresh material from the mill. The other issue is that paint shows everything.