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CabinetVision VS Mozaik5/26
My question is this; Is the price of taking your CNC machine to S2M with Cabinet Vision Ultimate worth the money or is Mozaik a better option. I am not a full time production shop, I build wall units, custom vanities and some odd pieces. I know that Cabinet Vision is very powerful but expensive not only to upgrade to but to pay for support every year. I have about another 5 to seven years in me with this industry so I am trying to make sense of it all. I also run KCD Software which seems to be pretty good for some basic needs but in the true custom world not custom enough. I like using the program for allot of more of the basic projects. I am an AutoCad user and I have Cam programs for the really odd stuff. Thank you in advance for any input on this!
You can try Moziak for 90 days initially, Inexpensive way to find out,, if it is not what you want then go another route. I am all for the newer business model vs the one were you get married then meet the Bride later...
I agree with James. Just give Mozaik a try. Cheap but valuable research, if it won't work then try something else.
I have Cabinet Vision Ultimate. It is very expensive as far as I'm concerned. Once it is purchased, all updates are included in the annual support. It too is expensive, but not too bad. The forum that is part of support is great.
I too do mostly custom/one of units. Cabinet Vision has served me well there. The learning curve is steep, but once accomplished, it makes design very easy.
I have tried KCD & Cabinet Pro. Both very good programs, but Limited for the one of items i do. I sure wish I could get back the money I put into them.
I have watched Mozaik progress over the years, but have not had a need to change. So I have not tried it. But if it has the ability to build the way you need it to, it would be well worth the test period. A monthly fee in my opinion is far better than a big investment and then an annual fee for support that is probably more than what Mozajk charges each month.
You might take a look at Cabinet Sense, it was $100 to try for 3 months with fantastic support on questions.
Mozaik seems to be the go to these days but I didn't like it, I tried it for a few months.
Steep learning curve , plan on spending about 500 - 800 on training sessions to get were you can get it to do what you want.
Once you get there a very good program, MDF doors, Good nest management. Not perfect but good value for the money.
You'll lay out $30,000, give or take, to CV and have to pay a couple grand a year to maintain it. That $30k is gone, your key is worth absolutely nothing if you decide to pull the pin next year.
It's good software, especially for larger shops posting parts to lots of machines, but they are a horrid company to deal with.
I have Mozaik. Three seats costs me $175/month, $2100/year. I'm content with it. It's not perfect, but I feel the shortcomings of each option is about the same. Learning curve is steep, but not rocket surgery. You're not going to sit down with any unfamiliar software and knock it out immediately. It takes time learn. Training is $75 an hour versus $150 for CV. I've been using it for about 20 months and have done probably 8 hours of training. Your initial purchase comes with two or three hours of training. Make use of that, iris the only easy to give it a fair shake.
The one thing I've learned about Mozaik is there is almost always a way to accomplish what you want to do, though sometimes getting their is confusing.
I appreciate their business model. It fits our small shop well, in both in capability and budget.
Thank you everyone for the solid advice and great information! I appreciate all the comments.
Have been using Mozaik for almost a year now. As others have said it has a steep learning curve and that is coming from someone who has many different CAD and CAM packages learned over the years. The software works well, it allows you to create MOST things you would need. It does not really handle radiused things well at all. If at all. Yes it has radiused commands in it but for the most part it is very limited. Basic cabinets you do 99 percent of the time are quick and easy.
The G code it outputs is spot on altho it does not seem to allow many options for lead ins and outs and other things that most CAM packages will allow. However it does work well. It also supports multi drill heads etc.
The forum is ok, most of the time if you ask a question you will get the obligatory answer from the owner, " If you don't know how to do this pay for some training with trainer X" I could understand this on a complex question but you see this in MOST of the threads over there it seems. Quite frustrating. In my view forums are where I get MOST of my software based learning from and searching there is a valuable resource. Telling everyone they need to pay for training is a cop out in my view.
The 3D views and models the software creates are quite helpful and allow you to really see what is going on inside your design. The software also allows some nice renderings either with the stock software or with additional plugins. You can show the customer exactly what they are paying for. This is one of the better features of the software. Again it is not perfect but it is quite good.
They are ACTIVELY updating and refining the program however and it is a lot better today than it was when I started with it. There are still items in the print side of things that are needed and they seem to be working on that part a lot more lately. I am sure at some point it will be a good solid overall program. In the mean time it does MOST of what I need to do easily. The fancier stuff I do in 3D CAD/CAM and the combination allows me to do almost anything I need to do.
It is difficult to argue when the price is reasonable especially when compared to the other players out there today that charge a LOT more. Their sales model is a good one and will stand the test of time I think. That is unless they start changing things. Overall I am pleased and would do it again. Good luck to you.
I can’t give any feedback on mosaic. I have a love hate relationship with CV. One thing somebody That uses both told me about a year ag. The nesting in CV was much better than Mozaik. CV would consistently utilize less sheets when nesting exact same job.
We did use Mozaik for a while. It is affordable but only works for common cabinets. Tech support is almost non existent. Every time you ask a question you are told to spend more money for training. After spending the money for training you will find that the trainer can't answer the question either. Also if you leave them you loose all your cabinets. They will let you buy them for 600.00 per cabinet though.
Pete, what do you mean you have to buy your cabinets? I'm not tracking.
Karl, when you leave Mozaik your authorization code is denied. You can not open the files that you saved on your computer. If you need them you have to Mozaik and they will charge you per cabinet to retrieve them.
I came and went from moziak a good si times before i finally found time to dive in and get busy. hired a guy remote (a great friend) who knew it better than I and it took a short while but i got it after that and now use it extensively, I do draw my more complex reception counters using PDF take off and Aspire for the walls and counters yet all cabinets Boxes are done with Moziak
they have never just shut me off on the day i decided to leave my code was and is always good to the last day it is paid for.
I am at a loss for what "My Cabinets" means after all I can download dxfs (Most all programs) and print Html list if need. no software has given me thee cart blance to produce their code in someone elses software ? i can save any dxf from amy part of the cabinet i want and sometimes i do. over the years i have built a heck od a library for my self as no software will controll my business so my qusetion is what is to be gained if one switches or stops using a rented software. i first bought Cabnetware in the mid 90s it was basically the wild west back then these days with the advent of something like Moziak how can you go wrong.
We have a Moziak Forum on camheads .org. you may have to join and insure you get your approval email (even if it is in spam folder) not sure if you can find your anser there but there are some good end users on it.
Gotcha. I'm not sure how they would do me much good anyways if I were to switch to another software.
Cabinet sense does custom and the common cabinets in the same platform.