Post a Response Subscribe Guidelines

Computer Aided Design

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Switching from Cabinet Vision

9/1/22

Colby Ellis

Member

Website: https://cabinetworksva.com/

After about 3 years of trying to get this software to do what I need it to do, I'm done with it. The software is constantly breaking, and updates are few and far between.

Are any of you working a very high-end residential shops and what software do you use to get the job done?

We use AutoCAD for shop and client drawings because CV's CAD stuff just sucks.

9/1/22 #2: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Karl E Brogger

Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Try KCD, Cabinet Pro, and Mozaik.

I don't know what high end means.

9/1/22 #3: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

Member

To me that means very pretty and detailed shop drawings. No 2 jobs are the same so styles can vary greatly.

9/1/22 #4: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Jared

You picked a bad timeframe to try CV. They're going through a rocky transformation from 32 bit to 64 bit code, and what's being released is in pretty rough shape, at least for my shop. The experience has not been great. Performance is slower with each release, important features that used to work are now broken and require bothersome workarounds, and their development staff seem to be out of touch with what their users want: stability and speed. I'm told to keep quiet and drink the kool-aid. I still use it because I subscribe to the sunk cost fallacy. I'm certain at some point in the near future I'll get mad enough to ask for a Microvellum demo.

9/1/22 #5: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

Member

Thats pretty much where I'm at. I'm on Esupport daily and see other people voice their frustrations pretty often. I have no real issue with using cabinet vision for G-Code but I hate having to draw everything in AutoCAD and then drawit all over again in Cabinet Vision.

I've looked in Mozaik but it seems very...left behind? Their website is also very outdated...thats kinda why I wanted to see if anybody here uses it.

Microvellum on the other hand looks amazing but also geared toward commercial jobs and does not seem too fleshed out on the residential side of things.

9/1/22 #6: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Jim Diebolt

Member

Website: https://forum.designsbydiebolt.com/viewforum.php?f...

For anyone using or returning to Cabnetware we offer full service tech support and software needed.

We have everything that you need to keep your software running in top shape. Complete online live tech support with highly trained technicians.

The forum has over 400 topics that include 1400 posts that are always growing. If you can't find your question just post it for free help.

Cabnetware Tech Support Forum

9/1/22 #8: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Karl E Brogger

Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

I use Mozaik. I'm content with it.

It has it's faults, but they all do.

What kind of detail are you specifically looking to have stand out?

Mozaik has an add on that is supposed to make the renderings look really nice, but I don't know how much more effort needs to be put in to get it there. AerialVision? I think that's the name?

I can email you what I use for shop drawings if you want.

View higher quality, full size image (2340 X 1080)

9/1/22 #9: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Karl E Brogger

Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Actual job.

View higher quality, full size image (3456 X 3456)

View higher quality, full size image (3024 X 3024)

View higher quality, full size image (3456 X 3456)

9/2/22 #10: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

cadmaster

Try Pytha - https://www.pytha.com
or SolidWorks with SWOOD - https://swood.eficad.com
or TopSolidWood - https://www.topsolid.com/en/products/topsolidwood
or Inventor with Woodwork For Inventor - https://www.widom-assoc.com/woodwork-for-inventor
All this cabinet software are to limited and inflexible.

9/2/22 #11: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

Member

After looking around it seems like right now going with AutoCAD for manual drawings is the best bet for us right now. It was probably a dumb question for me to ask because I figured I knew the answer:

1. Do your drawings manually and they look great but take time.
2. Do your drawings using your cabinet builder (CV for me) and get drawings faster but with less appeal and random crashing.

9/2/22 #12: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Karl E Brogger

Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

Post a screen shot of the drawings you're making. I'm curious.

9/2/22 #13: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

Member

Here is a random job we are doing. Still in the drawing phase but this is the kind of very clean look we are trying to achieve. I can't really every get the automatic dimensions in Cabinet Vision to work like how I need them to.

View higher quality, full size image (1320 X 1020)

9/2/22 #14: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Jared

Colby that level of quality shouldn't be difficult in Cabinet Vision. I was under the impression you were after something more complex. Yes the auto dimensioning is sometimes jacked up, but redimensioning takes only a minute for a project that size. Even though I haven't been happy with CV for a while, I can still design and draw faster in one program compared with redrawing in Autocad. I wonder if you just need to revise your method of work. I never use a drawing scene without cleaning it up first. Send to drawing, remove extra lines, redimension, hatch, annotate. Is your PC cripplingly slow? CV's cad isn't great, but with some tweaks it can produce reasonably clean drawings.

9/2/22 #15: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

Member

PC is actually pretty fast. I custom built it about 3 years ago. Who knows, maybe I'm just being picky. I've always heard people say you shouldn't fight the software and it seems like that what I'm constantly doing with CV. Things like molding from one wall showing up on another elevation, countertops not generating correctly, difficulty drawing complex angled walls, and then CAD crashing randomly.

I've also been looking into doing all of our notations in BluBeam so we can avoid all of the messing CV CAD stuff.

9/2/22 #16: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Nathan W

Member

Hi Colby,

We use Microvellum, mostly commercial stuff, however it could absolutely do high end residential no problem. It does an great automatically creating 2d drawings, and renders inside of Autocad. It is a super steep learning curve, however the amount of flexibility, and freedom you have is unreal, that is once you figure out how to navigate everything. Everything from constrution types, auto dimentions, many types of hardware, you name it its in there if you knwo how to do it.

9/2/22 #17: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Jared

I've not had a single crash in CAD since I moved from v12 to v2022. It is one of the very few improvements that I've seen. I imagine it's because their 64 bit framework removes a RAM ceiling. I run an i7-10700K with 32gb and an RTX 2060, not that the video card matters at all with CV... 2 3090s running SLI and CV would ignore it and still struggle to hit 5 FPS when rotating a 3D view.

9/22/22 #19: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Pdub

Member

High-end residential here and we use CV. Just upgraded to 2022 from V11 and I like it. S2M is slow and full of problems now, but nothing insurmountable (for us) and I think they are working on that now that the whole 64 bit thang is behind them. The last few years I've considered jumping ship a few times out of frustration, but I think now that they don't have that monumental task to focus on, the bugs and speed will improve.

Is it the most robust in the CAD department that I've seen? No. But it's not terrible. Drawings like you show are no problem at all for CV. I've been using it for 10+ years and am still finding out stuff it can do.

Way back when I was deciding which software to marry, my take was that CV was the most versatile for doing weird stuff and never doing the same thing as we do in high-end residential. The exception was Microvellum. Everything I heard about that however is that while it's more versatile, it's even more difficult to learn, has it's own share of bugs, doesn't have nearly the support that you get with the CV forum and you need a full time person programming it. I'm owner, manager, customer service, floor sweeper and designer, so that wouldn't work.

CV ain't perfect, but for us I continue to decide that it's the best option.

10/3/22 #21: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Rufus Cooke

Member

Website: https://shorelineparametrics.com
Remember the expression, "you can only pick 2 of the 3 options: 1) Cheap (inexpensive), 2) Fast, 3) Quality,"
This is one person's experience:
35 years ago, when doing very high end curstom work, the range of our projects required a good (and fast) 2D CAD program, but we also needed to generate cutting lists. So, we did just that, we drew in Ashlar Vellum because it was fast and we could detail everything we needed to get drawing approval AND have a good reliable set of drawings for installation. Then, once the drawings were approved for fabrication, we entered the relevant data into Cabnetware for cutlisting and CadCode. Then CV Solid came along and it seemed to show promise and we used it for several years as well.
For me personally, both packages are fantastic number crunchers for cutting lists (and then cnc), but the drawings always fell short - especially with detailed plan/vertical sections (for installation and coordinating plumbing and other trades & outsourced manufacturers). I found the only 2 workarounds were to use CVs or CWs manual drawing tools (which were cumbersone and not linked) or to do the detailed drawings in another CAD application (again with no link).
About that time I started to do ALOT of curved staircases which meant doing the work in 2D CAD (I used Ashlar Vellum which again was very fast), but given that stairs are laid out following a pitch, editing elevations in 2D CAD (despite using parametrics when practical) when floor heights change, was very tedious.
I started to experiment with 3D CAD packages, took the plunge and switched to SolidWorks.
That was 2001 and the learning curve was massive, but it's my time that was invested and I'm glad I did. It wasn't easy, the user base in the woodworking/construction industry was almost non-existant and I had to adapt alot of the software to my uses. But then that's the beauty of it - it's flexible. Now, the software is a bit easier to use and best of all, the user base is pretty broad, making learning easier (thanks to YouTube).
Once familiar with the software, users typically start to generate libraries of their materials, hardware and basic parametric subassemblies of their more standardized components (doors/drawers, stair tread/risers, etc) for dragging into their parent assemblies.
Anyway, StairCon and Compass have taken over a large portion of the stairwork I used to do, but they too have their limitations (like with CV and CW) and I get calls regulary to model twisted components which are beyond their capacities. Again, they are great pieces of industry specific software, but are always haunted by limitations.
Now as I'm probably on the final stretch of my career, I do alot of metal, wood, glass & stone projects, (often with different materials & vendors in the same stair/cabinetry or millwork job) and using a tool like SW (or inventor) makes it alot easier to manage the multiple materials & vendors - especially with flattened components and drilled & tapped holes for mating parts, etc..
I get accurate parts lists (for anything from metal, wood and hardware), I flatten curved work for CNC or templates and all drilled/tapped holes align as intended, the list goes on.
I don't believe any other type of software (like SW, Inventor, TopSolid) could be this versatile and while it's certainly not for every shop, there are some who clearly need more.
So back to the old expression:
1) Cheap - definitely not
2) Fast - It can be surprisingly so, especially when able to make use of part libraries & templates
3) Quality - Definitely. In 25 years, CAD AND communication errors have been virtually negligible and I chaulk most of that up to the software.
So for me personally, the investment has paid off in spades. I know every shops needs are different, but for me, from stairs to cockleshell cabinets (if you want to see more, my website has a much wider range of projects), this choice has worked well.
Good luck with yours.
Cheers,
Rufus

View higher quality, full size image (7236 X 4824)

Examples of Projects using 3D Modelling Software (SW)

10/3/22 #22: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

David Wishengrad

@Pdub,

S2M was made to work well by Rich Greenhoe. Last I checked, he is over at Mastercam, a company I will never trust due to hiw they treated their original customers of ATP. (ATP finally works now), but so what.

Given other issues I have seen with CV losing talent and what they did when that happened, my guess is your issues will not really get fixed until they are willing to spend 500K, up front as a bonus just to get the attention of someone that actually knows what they are doing and why. I do not believe any self-respecting individual that knows the in's and out's would ever touch their code for less than 500K upfront just to take a look, + $950.00 an hour for the work and a public apology for previous wrongs.

It's been 20+ years and still auto dimming from parametics is being complained about. Why is something that easy and important not yet handled? It's not hard to do that from a paramedic database. I suspect just one person with know how could have fixed all of that in under a week and they never did it. So, good luck with your dreams.

11/5/22 #23: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby Ellis

So recently there was an update to Cabinet Vision Version 2022 that (2022.3) that has fixed almost all crashing issues for me. I'd say that I've had 0 crashes in a full week which is almost unheard of for me. I can use CAD regularly without crashing so drawings are now taking minutes instead of hours.

I think I was angry when I made this thread because of how stressful it can be to be in a time crunch for drafting & production and also having to draw everything twice (AutoCAD and CV). This recent update has sort-of saved CV in my eyes, although there is a lot of functionality still missing and some ideas that are a decade old with hundreds of votes and are still not planned for release.

So all-in-all CV seems to be getting much more stable with each release since version 2021. I'm a happy camper as of November 2022 so we will see how things pan out going forward.

Thanks everybody!

11/11/22 #24: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

pat s gilbert

Hey Rufus good see you post

To the OP tray Derek Slotmayer, last I heard he used Sollidworks for presentation drawing and switched to CV for the boxes, doing high end residential

11/24/22 #25: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

cabinetmaker

We run CV.

We have 5 seats of Ultimate and 2 seats S2M. We are deeply imbedded now and I can�t see changing.

I�m not real sure what othere�s are looking for, but as the owner we are pushing code for our cnc to run solidly @ 36 hours a week on average.

That�s boxes, tops, reception desks, corian, sills conf table bases etc. residential. And export dxf to our granite and quartz shop

We do have to use a layer called drawings for some jobs to get a little cleaner, but due the most part we are good. Doing manual overrides, etc. for details that take used saved cad symbols in library. But it works

I lost my sh�. couple weeks ago because in 2021 you can edit a counter and let rec tube steel or metal brackets in for span or material/install driven install but it was taken away in 2022 to fix an issue with how you click on it with your mouse to fix a double required right click vs just one ��. We are testing 2022 for production and most things are great.

We just happen to push the envelope ourselves and make it crash on crazy jobs but today I�m running 45 corian tops and 30 sheets of birch of birch panel.

As per submittals we rarely have an issue on detail. We will submit and correct repeatedly, and once 100 complete then jamb a job out.

I 7. 32 gb, robust video cards 10 pro. Ready for the 11 pro jump.

All individual keys, 2019 Windows server with 64gb ram. All of us go to the server on the monster jobs save to our desktop, run it, then save it to the server.

We run Alphacam across the street in stone. We were �pre doing� work in draft site, now everything is done in AC, we got some tech support and more training Draftsight was great, but a step saved is what it is.

Hoping this helps We are getting some good compliments from architects staff on submittals with us submitting in CV. hitting S2M is just so much more efficient

12/20/22 #26: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Steven Widom

Member

It is my belief one of the superior tools that will allow a user full capability in custom as well as stock woodworking is the usage of Autodesk Inventor withWoodworking for Inventor , both products together offer all types of woodworking from tradional to modern the capability of ease of use with full design .

Ease of use without being a programers able to design in all materials and data compatible with 90% of all architects as well as designers

View higher quality, full size image (857 X 1061)

https://www.youtube.com/widomtech

7/3/23 #27: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Kuznechik

please dont switch from cabinet vision,,,one of the dumbest thing i ever did,,,their service sucks, their reps suck,,but the product is rock solid,,,,,cabinet vision ultimate with s2m ultimate is the best product ever,,,

their software really started to have a lot of these runtime errors ,,because they started to get greedy and lock people out of everything,,,if you see a dongle or license file from IRSauctions ot machinery max,,,grab it,,,,ever so often when people post their cabinet vision for sale here,,we grab it,,we recently bough a copy here,,,v10 with all the bells and whistles ,EVERYTHING ,,with post processors,,,,,

7/3/23 #28: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Colby

Member

Don't worry we are not switching. I was very disillusioned with CV a year ago but we are in a much better place now. CV2023 is a less buggy release then the last 3 versions in my opinion, and our drawings are starting to get where we needed them. Still not 100% happy, but who is?

7/3/23 #29: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Kuznechik

if we could do our take off in cabinet vision as easily as bluebeam,,,i would cutout bluebeam and procore ,,,that is the last missing link

7/3/23 #30: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

cabinetmaker

Glad to hear you are staying put

We are waiting on a few items, but then we are going to 64 bit

One of our biggest issues is a basic library and one of our drafters fighting a losing battle of re-inventing the wheel

7/3/23 #31: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Kuznechik

i havent seen many major changes, since 11 ,,well v21 removed advanced and ultimate and now its Cabinet vision core, live object tree is trash,,oh wait the shadow line is brand new, ,,everything else is the same,,label it, catalog editor, render , s2m, there is now a tier charge if you need to add a post,,i wasnt surprised,,luckily i found an answer for that.

7/3/23 #32: Switching from Cabinet Vision ...

Kuznechik

although 9 is our working system here,,im always a sucker for a sales pitch and the "latest version" ,,the transition from v9 to v22 was a nightmare, they couldnt solve it, we hired a member from cnc zone to help us , with the installation and the additional post/machine setup

Post a Response

Notify me of responses to this thread

Subscribe to email updates on this Forum

Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.

Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.

A valid email return address must be included with each message.

Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.

Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.

"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.

Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.

Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.

Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.

Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.

Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.

Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.

Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
(return to top).

Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)

Forum Posting Help
Your Name	The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Your Website	Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
E-Mail Address	Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject	Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines	Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads	Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)

www.tradesoftinc.com

Related Information:
Products: Computer Software
Drafting Design Services
Resources: Software Connection
Knowledge Base: Computerization

Recent Threads at all Forums

To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread, enter your name and email address, and then click the "Keep Me Posted" button below. Please Note: If you have posted a message or response, *do not* submit this request ... you are already signed up to receive notification!
Your Name:
E-Mail Address:
Enter the correct numbers into the field below:

Date of your Birth:	Return to top of page

Computer Aided Design

Switching from Cabinet Vision

FORUM GUIDELINES

Forum Posting Help

Sponsors