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AI drawings

9/7/23       
Eric R Smith


When can I get my AI draftsman doing shops and layouts? Anything on the horizon?

9/7/23       #2: AI drawings ...
Stuart Douglas

Not Even Friday yet ;)

I don't think so.

9/8/23       #3: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

I have been touching it.

I got myself familiar with ML (machine learning), have the visual studio plug-ins, git co-pilot, and have given consderable thought to how it can be done and also how AI can be used to assist.

There are many general issues. Large data sets that are of sufficient quality for training are not gererally available.

The ones that have the money for cleaning up the training data and cpu time on serious machines will always have a major advantage on anyone who does not have those resources.

The entire thing is an ethical nightmare where many of the very people writing and pushing that tech want control and take it upon themselves to set the ethical standards and bar.

I had the bot over at OpenAI, give me message board access and privalages, citing it had noticed how much time I was reading the technical information. Just about to first thing I did was message most of the people running it. It turned out that not a one of those people agreed that "life is most important" and they kicked me out.

I finally know just enough about coding, the right people, and can effectively use the existing AI tech to assist in generating code exactly for this purpose. I also have extensive experience with millwork drawings and production drawings, and millwork, and feature recognition and software creation and deployment, in addition to CNC interoperability, and the deep experience and understanding of the very problems that exist at the very core of the approaches used to make these CAD platforms do millwork.

It's just that from my point of view a person who does not agree that life is most important is always a person who cannot be properly trusted with life any kind, and others leave it to me to look into it.

In my personal opinion, the AI tech is far more dangerous than putting nukes in those people's hands. e.g. I am feeling and acting on what I think is more important at this time.

It's not at all like many think it is, but different techniques to process existing data sets already exist and can quickly and easily be deployed.

To reallly have the success with it and not taken advantage of others requires an open source platform designed from the bottom up to address the immediate shortcomings of adding fixes to existing CAD tech to make it have and do what is really needed at the core from the get go.

The existing millwork software sales model is all about proprietary tech and the stifling of innovation and control.

So, one of the hold-ups is we need that new.CAD platform thatnis completely open, runs in any modern web browser, can be quickly understood with minimal training in notepad, and is built from the ground up understanding what data is needed and why. Mick Dupree is working on such a platform. I have seen pieces over the years, but it not yet deployed. If he gets that done, and I know he has the framework correct, the rest of the drawing automation will probably be quickly forthcoming. Of course he will have reject others trying to buy him out.

Who of would walk away from a large amount of money over something as trivial as a CAD solution when some others can code it too anyway?

yt seach of ML.with Visual Studio

9/8/23       #4: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

p.s. Generative Transformers that utilize semantics and ML plugins in VS are mentioned approaches, but there are others out there that use different methods. XGboost uses regression.

https://xgboost.readthedocs.io/en/stable/

9/8/23       #5: AI drawings ...
james e mcgrew  Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

Architects are already doing this, they call it copy and paste LOL

9/8/23       #6: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

James,

I gather that is what the plans never match the elevations, and the elevations never match the sections, and the sections never match the details, and the most critical dimensions are omitted.

All the fun, huh?

9/8/23       #7: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

what = why.

Not feeling my best atm. Covid joy abounds.

9/8/23       #8: AI drawings ...
Jonah Coleman  Member

Website: http://www.architecturalarts.com
I'm the product owner for INNERGY DESIGN. We are building AI into our engineering software, so this type of stuff is on the horizon for sure. Probably not AI drawings for a good, long time but AI assistance for sure.

We already have AI in use in our ERP for things like automatic reconciliation of vendor invoices, automatic location detection from blue prints for on screen Takeoff, and more. So we have some experience.

First thing I tried to use an AI model on in engineering was to have it automatically recognize and layout the walls in the plan view. This failed, quite spectacularly. It was right-ish, but not nearly good enough for engineering.

I think the first application we will use is while placing products on the elevation, we will read the PDF behind the mouse and automatically size the product. This seems obviously do-able. I *think* we can have it take a shot at recognizing the configuration of the product (e.g. 1 door, 3 drawer, etc). If we can do that, maybe you can just click on the wall and say "build products" and get a good starting point.

9/8/23       #9: AI drawings ...
Jonah Coleman  Member

Website: http://www.innergy.com

Looks like I had my old info in my profile, sorry about that.

For an example of the "low hanging" fruit, I'm imagining that as I move my mouse over the drawing the product is auto sizing to match.


View higher quality, full size image (1904 X 912)

9/8/23       #10: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Hi Jonah,

I see that. I really don't like pdf's for data. It's too proprietary. There has to be a transition to genuinely valuing individuals of ever the money. That's why is holding it all back.

Hacking together stuff for this is possible.

For instance, dynamicly created scripts on the fly autoloaded and and run can be done to facilitate automating the drawing process. Any canned millwork software that takes input via xml, dxf, a database, etc., can have that created as needed. Extra cpus predicting the various possibilities and allowing the user to jump forward can be displayed on different screens or windows and they can just pick one if it is a good guess. netDXF and other open source libraries allow that all to be hacked together now.

It's still not going to change companies intentionally putting the heater core in the dash who are only concerned about immediate short term financial profit.

I have a very stong belief that people who do not agree that life is most important should not have any sort of involvement in the development and deployment of AI tech.

We can already do it now. It's just not getting done because of access control being set by people who themselves do not honestly care about life.

At shop years ago, the entire shop floor surrounded me and threatened to kick my butt if I made things any easier. They said they wanted their overtime. That shop went under.

So, there are considerations. Those that can pay for this tech now have the ability to do a whole bunch that was out of their immediate reach before. The code generation can be very helpful if one knows how to prompt the machine.

9/19/23       #12: AI drawings ...
jesse99

I recommend Autodesk AutoCAD for its extensive suite of AI-assisted features and tools that can greatly enhance your architectural drafting and layout design projects.

10/8/23       #13: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

In case some of you are not paying attention, the capabilities of AI in drafting and design are already quite impressive.

chatGPT 4 can accept images and write gcode already.

it can draw that way, and many others. It can correctly write scripts that can be run in blender, acad, etc., and even write source code to do the recognition it is doing for you you and the generate the output.

If you are drafting anything at all and not paying attention to this tech you are going to be kicking yourself later.

It's flat out mind-blowing what is easily possible right now with just a handful of people taking seriously.

It's generally stated as fact that people like myself that understand some coding, but do not have polished skillsets on current programing benifit the most from this tech.

If it can write gcode...it can draw, dimension and label, and there are input boxes for pictures and examples of current output expected. I have used it and there is no doubt about it that almost all who do not utilize the tech and learn to deploy it to help get the drafting done are going to find it harder to keep their job drafting.

Do you think an AI can auto dim and label a plan or elevation or section automatically? I do.

Do you think an AI can generate a script for acad or another program to draw it? I do.

Do you that an AI can also output an xml correctly for input into your library just by uploading an image and having spent the time to make sure it works? I do.

Do you think that an AI can write you the code for your own program to do all of this stuff so that you don't have to use the AI for it later and can have the functionality local? I do.

My opinion is that this tech can be more dangerous than nukes.

Life is Most Important must be maintained throughout in my opinion. That with greater advancements in tech we require a soild foundation in ethics and morals

This tech is already changing the drafting cad tech space in leaps and bounds and it is expected that there will be much more soon if we don't send ourselves back to the stone age first.

I know this will make this a long post and they do strive for brevity here, but I took what I wrote above and asked got3.5 to rewite it for me. Here it is:

In case some of you are not paying attention, the capabilities of AI in drafting and design are already quite impressive.

chatGPT 4 can accept images and write gcode already.

it can draw that way, and many others. It can correctly write scripts that can be run in blender, acad, etc., and even write source code to do the recognition it is doing for you and the generated the output.

If you are drafting anything at all and not paying attention to this tech you are going to be kicking yourself later.

It's flat out mind-blowing what is easily possible right now with just a handful of people taking seriously.

It's generally stated as fact that people like myself that understand some coding, but do not have polished skillsets on current programing benifit the most from this tech.

If it can write gcode...it can draw, dimension and label, and there are input boxes for pictures and examples of current output expected. I have used it and there is no doubt about it that almost all who do not utilize the tech and learn to deploy it to help get the drafting done are going to find it harder to keep their job drafting.

Do you think an AI can auto dim and label a plan or elevation or section automatically? I do.

Do you think an AI can generate a script for acad or another program to draw it? I do.

Do you that an AI can also output an xml correctly for input into your library just by uploading an image and having spent the time to make sure it works? I do.

Do you think that an AI can write you the code for your own program to do all of this stuff so that you don't have to use the AI for it later and can have the functionality local? I do.

My opinion is that this tech can be more dangerous than nukes.

Life is Most Important must be maintained throughout in my opinion. That with greater advancements in tech we require a soild foundation in ethics and morals

This tech is already changing the drafting cad tech space in leaps and bounds and it is expected that there will be much more soon if we don't send ourselves back to the stone age first.

ChatGPT
Certainly, here's your comment cleaned up and made more readable:

For those who may not be paying close attention, AI's capabilities in drafting and design have become remarkably impressive.

ChatGPT 4 can already accept images and generate G-code. It's proficient at drawing and much more. It can accurately create scripts usable in software like Blender, AutoCAD, and more. It can even generate source code to perform tasks like recognition and output generation.

If you're involved in any form of drafting work and not keeping up with this technology, you might regret it down the road.

The potential of what can be achieved right now is nothing short of mind-blowing, thanks to a small group of dedicated individuals who take it seriously.

It's commonly accepted that people like me, who have some coding knowledge but lack polished programming skills, benefit greatly from this technology.

If it can generate G-code, it can handle tasks like drawing, dimensioning, and labeling, with input boxes for images and examples of expected outputs. I've personally used it, and there's no doubt that those who don't embrace this technology for drafting tasks will face challenges in their careers.

Can AI automatically handle tasks like dimensioning and labeling a plan, elevation, or section? I believe it can.

Can AI generate a script for software like AutoCAD to create these designs? I think it can.

Can AI generate XML files accurately for your library by simply uploading an image? I'm confident it can.

And do I believe AI can even write the code for your own program to perform these tasks locally, reducing reliance on external AI? Absolutely.

In my opinion, this technology has the potential to be more impactful than nuclear power. We must prioritize the preservation of life and establish a strong foundation in ethics and morals as technology advances.

This tech is already causing significant changes in the drafting and CAD tech space, and we can expect much more if we don't hinder our own progress.

Not too bad. I can fix that with another prompt or so.

10/8/23       #14: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Have a great weekend everyone. :)
You have a lot to think about and probably get your hands dirty with.

10/9/23       #15: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Apologies for the apparent echo of some of the text above. My brain was too tired to reread it at the time. I don't know how it happened. It's worth keeping anyway.

I just asked gpt3.5 to write me an acad script. Note here that gpt4 can do much better with the input boxes it provides, than gpt3.5.

I asked for a script to make 9 sequenced layers. It moaned and lied that it was too hard, etc., then I gave it a rough example and it spit it out with a few errors. Then I gave it the exact syntax and it got it correct. I can now ask for the same thing in the future and expand on that to do other things.

Sure, I could make a block that has 9 layers like that for immediate importing, but with this I can choose the count of the layers and have it automatically try and keep the colors of them as different from each other as possible, so the colors would be dynamic, AND I can ask it now write me the c# code for a form that I already have in an existing application. All I need is a button on a form to do it and a name and quantity field to take the text to sequence and the quantity of sequenced layers to make.

Sure, I have no doubt I can code that without gpt, but the time it would take me is not worth it at first. However, once the bot has the envelope correct in memory with other script examples it then do far more and far more easily. There is some loss of amortization given its flaws and lack of memory in certain ways, but you can always start over with what works and trash the learning curve conversation.

Understand it is writing gcode from a picture. That means it can draw to your standards if you learn how to drive it.. It can do it with scripts or source code, and even utilize a virtual keyboard and mouse to write code to automated many tasks.

Disclaimer: It is a machine. Any intelligence is artificial. e.g. doesn't actually exist in it. If need be, pour coke-a-cola in and give it a swift kick. It's just a machine. Static shock it without shielding, whatever you think might work until it starts giving you a jackpot every time you kick it. :)

10/27/23       #16: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

We can tank Henry Winkler for the great advice of how to handle machines. Happy Days!

11/8/23       #17: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Here is a recent example of my using of OpenAI, one of many different possible AI techs available.

The code below opens a dxf file that has lines and arcs in it and finds the intersections of lines and arcs and lines, with the lines projected to infinity, but only returns the intersection points when the points actually cross each other, using the netDXF library in C#. Arcs can be very tricky with their start and end angles and many checks need to be made and duplicates need to be removed from the console output. If I have 2 lines or an arc and line that only cross each other, it will return the coordinates of the intersection and the handle ids of the objects, but not twice with the just the handle strings inverted. I will also know the coordinates of where they would if the line was projected to infinity, but I don't return that data for use atm, but that is there too.

I could have written all of this, but it would have taken me days or weeks relearning the math and getting the code correct and reading about how to go about doing this from others, but yet here it is...working...and doing it memory, which is magnitudes faster than accessing the data graphics to get those intersections (as how typically done) and it doesn't require a drawing engine to do the work and then extract the data. That really matters when working with large datasets pushing 100,000 - 4000,000 entities. The ram on the machines is pushed to the limit with most standard graphics approaches. One would need to check each against every other one. It's an exponential problem.

Please don't let AI drive you crazy. It can. Enjoy the code. It's good stuff.

It starts below at:
/// good!!!

DxfDocument loaded = DxfDocument.Load("C:\\Users\\Dave\\Downloads\\new block\\new\\arcline.dxf");

As some of classes need to be above the code.

public static int FindLineCircleIntersections(Vector3 circleCenter, double radius,

Vector3 lineStart, Vector3 lineEnd,

out Vector3 intersection1, out Vector3 intersection2)

{

double dx, dy, A, B, C, det, t;

dx = lineEnd.X - lineStart.X;

dy = lineEnd.Y - lineStart.Y;

A = dx * dx + dy * dy;

B = 2 * (dx * (lineStart.X - circleCenter.X) + dy * (lineStart.Y - circleCenter.Y));

C = (lineStart.X - circleCenter.X) * (lineStart.X - circleCenter.X) +

(lineStart.Y - circleCenter.Y) * (lineStart.Y - circleCenter.Y) -

radius * radius;

det = B * B - 4 * A * C;

if ((A buffer)

{

// The point is not on the arc's circle.

return false;

}

// Calculate the angle of the point relative to the center of the arc.

double angleOfPoint = Math.Atan2(point.Y - arcCenter.Y, point.X - arcCenter.X) * (180.0 / Math.PI);

angleOfPoint = (angleOfPoint endAngle)

{

// The arc crosses the 0 degree line

return angleOfPoint >= startAngle || angleOfPoint = 0 && dotProduct intersectedLines = new List ();

List intersectedArcs = new List ();

// Iterate through lines in ModelSpace

foreach (Line line in entitiesBlocks.OfType ())

{

// Extend both ends of the line in 2D

//Convert the Vector3 to a Vector2 and extend

Vector2 startPoint2D = new Vector2(line.StartPoint.X, line.StartPoint.Y);

Vector2 endPoint2D = new Vector2(line.EndPoint.X, line.EndPoint.Y);

//Not used atm and not needed, a the line projects to infinity

//startPoint2D = startPoint2D - extensionAmount * new Vector2(line.Direction.X, line.Direction.Y);

//endPoint2D = endPoint2D + extensionAmount * new Vector2(line.Direction.X, line.Direction.Y);

// Update the 3D line endpoints while preserving the original Z value

//Not used atm and not needed, a the line projects to infinity

////line.StartPoint = new Vector3(startPoint2D.X, startPoint2D.Y, line.StartPoint.Z);

////line.EndPoint = new Vector3(endPoint2D.X, endPoint2D.Y, line.EndPoint.Z);

}

// Iterate through arcs in ModelSpace

foreach (Arc myarc in entitiesBlocks.OfType ())

{

// Extend both ends of the arc

//Not used atm, still checking projection via the required estimate of the curve

//myarc.StartAngle -= extensionAmount;

//myarc.EndAngle += extensionAmount;

}

// Lists to store unique intersection details

List uniqueIntersections = new List ();

// This HashSet will store tuples of line and arc handles that have been printed to avoid duplicates

HashSet > printedPairs = new HashSet >();

// Iterate through entities to find intersections

for (int i = 0; i < entitiesBlocks.Count; i++)

{

for (int j = i + 1; j < entitiesBlocks.Count; j++)

{

if (entitiesBlocks[i] is Line line1 && entitiesBlocks[j] is Line line2)

{

// Check for intersection between two lines

Vector2 intersection = MathHelper.FindIntersection(

line1.StartPoint.ToVector2(),

line1.Direction.T
oVector2(),

line2.StartPoint.ToVector2(),

line2.Direction.ToVector2(),

1
e-6);

if (!double.IsNaN(intersection.X) && !double.IsNaN(intersection.Y))

{

// Ensure the intersection is within the bounds of line1

bool isWithinLine1 = intersection.IsBetween(line1.StartPoint.ToVector2(), line1.EndPoint.ToVector2());

// Ensure the intersection is within the bounds of line2

bool isWithinLine2 = intersection.IsBetween(line2.StartPoint.ToVector2(), line2.EndPoint.ToVector2());

// If the intersection is within the bounds of both lines

if (isWithinLine1 && isWithinLine2)

{

// Create a unique intersection identifier

string identifier = $"{intersection.X:F3},{intersection.Y:F3}";

// Check for uniqueness

if (!uniqueIntersections.Contains(identifier))

{

intersectedLines.Add(line1); <
P>intersectedLines.Add(line2);

uniqueIntersections.Add(identifier);

// Output intersection details for lines

Console.WriteLine($"Intersection at ({intersection.X:F3},{intersection.Y:F3}) between Line: {line1.Handle} and Line: {line2.Handle}");

}

}

}

}

else if (entitiesBlocks[i] is Arc arc && entitiesBlocks[j] is Line line)

{

Vector3 intersection1, intersection2;

int intersections = FindLineCircleIntersections(

new Vector3((float)arc.Center.X, (float)arc.Center.Y, (float)arc.Center.Z),

arc.Radius,

line.StartPoint,

line.EndPoint,

out intersection1, out intersection2);

// Handle the intersections...

for (int k = 1; k <= intersections; k++)

{

Vector2 intersectionPoint = k == 1 ?

new Vector2(intersection1.X, intersection1.Y) :

new Vector2(intersection2.X, intersection2.Y);

// Check if intersection is within arc's angles and on the line segment

if (IsPointOnArc(intersectionPoint, arc.Center.ToVector2(), arc.Radius, arc.StartAngle, arc.EndAngle) &&

intersectionPoint.IsBetween(line.StartPoint.ToVector2(), line.EndPoint.ToVector2()))

{

// Create a unique intersection identifier

string identifier = $"{intersectionPoint.X:F3},{intersectionPoint.Y:F3}";

// Check if we have already printed this pair

if (!uniqueIntersections.Contains(identifier))

{

// If not, print the details and add the identifier to the uniqueIntersections

Console.WriteLine($"Intersection at ({intersectionPoint.X:F3},{intersectionPoint.Y:F3}) between Line: {line.Handle} and Arc: {arc.Handle}");

uniqueIntersections.Add(identifier);

}

}

}

} <
P>// ... [Any other intersection checks]

}

}

// Save the modified DXF file

loaded.Save("C:\\Users\\Dave\\Downloads\\new block\\new\\1a.dxf");

11/8/23       #18: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

I messed up pasting that code.
The code is too long for a comment.

I have put it in a pdf attached to this thread.
Thank you

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

arclineIntersectioncode.pdf

11/8/23       #19: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

The attached pdf is a printout from openai explaining this code.
It is another useful ability of this new tech in communication.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

details_of_code_by_ai.pdf

11/8/23       #20: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Just for fun, all I asked it for was this:

"can you please rewrite the code and add all of the explanation in the comments"

and it gave me this for all of you. :)

I hope others get involved. We will all just have to see what happens next.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

_arclineIntersectioncode_rewrite.pdf

11/8/23       #21: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

I have found that giving AI examples gets a lot more out of it. To do drawings with AI with what is available to me and my time, I must give it the logic to use. It's too random on large data sets. Just machine learning on existing drawings is not enough and we certainly don't want to depend on someone else's ai being there tonget things done. Using readily available ML modules with the logic figured out up front will get the most oit of them. We either want the ai code ourself or the code to accomplish the same thing or we are painting ourselves into another corner. Don't let the machine have it's way and mess with your head. Take breaks as needed.

11/8/23       #22: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

And last but not least...this one took some kicking, but it was all that I really wanted. It has the code commented not only to explain what is going on, but the math to a degree that someone can basically understand it. They may need to learn what a few words mean. It was certainly beyond my memory of math and yet I we have the code anyway. BTW, I believe hit a wall in there where I had to find the python code that did a method that I needed to a degree, and have it convert that codes logic to C# and put it right in my code. It did not work at first, but it does now.

Click the link below to download the file included with this post.

arclineIntersectioncode_withcomments.pdf

11/9/23       #23: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

So, I used AI to help me make some code and it.can be crucial, according to ai.

For those that don't understand the importance of this code, it can be simply understood that these types of calculations are typically done with a graphical user interface. Each object is recreated again and again and again to derive the coordinates of the intersections. While it works, the problem becomes exponential depending on the size of the data set. This keeps it all in memory and one never sees the file being changed. The file can be opened, and whatever time that takes is the only transaction taking place, instead of possibility memory stalling large files. When needed, the ability to find intersections is crucial, but doing many multitudes of time faster and being able to get large data sets done that would otherwise be impossible or almost so, is better crucial choice.

11/11/23       #24: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

Here is some additional information for people who have interest to get started... written by openai after kicking it 3 or 4 times:

OpenAI's ChatGPT and Codex Models: OpenAI offers advanced AI models like ChatGPT and Codex which can assist in generating text, coding, and even basic design tasks. These models can be a great starting point for learning about AI's capabilities in various fields, including CAD. You can explore these models at OpenAI's website.

Google AI and Machine Learning Resources: Google provides various AI and machine learning tools and educational resources that can be applied in diverse fields. Their resources are designed to be accessible to both beginners and advanced users. For more information, visit Google AI.

Coursera and edX Online Courses: Platforms like Coursera and edX offer courses on AI and machine learning that can be applied to CAD and woodworking. These courses range from introductory to advanced levels and are often developed in partnership with leading universities and organizations. Check out courses on Coursera and edX.

Kaggle Competitions and Datasets: Kaggle is a platform for data science and machine learning that provides access to datasets and hosts competitions. It’s a good place to practice and apply AI skills in a practical, problem-solving context. Visit Kaggle for more information.

GitHub Repositories for AI in CAD: GitHub hosts numerous open-source projects and repositories where you can find AI tools and scripts specifically tailored for CAD applications. This is a great way to learn from and contribute to real-world projects. Explore relevant projects on GitHub.

AI Ethics and Responsible AI Practices: It's crucial to understand the ethical implications of AI technology. Resources like AI Ethics provide insights into the responsible use of AI, focusing on how to best serve all life it applies to.

These resources offer a combination of practical tools, educational courses, and ethical considerations, allowing for a comprehensive understanding and application of AI in woodworking, CAD, and beyond. Remember, the ethical use of AI depends heavily on the context in which it is applied and the intentions of its users.

11/11/23       #25: AI drawings ...
David Wishengrad

"Remember, the ethical use of AI depends heavily on the context in which it is applied and the intentions of its users."

That part was nonsense. All legitimate ethics depend specifically on life always being truthfully most important and honesty applied as such.


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