I run a three-person cabinet shop in a small market in Northern New York State (think Canada, eh?). I am intrigued by the CNC world but don’t even know where to begin in educating myself in it. I can watch a you tubes video with the best of them but I am looking for some real advise… How do I dip my toe in the CNC pool? I want to eventually cut cabinet parts on a full sized machine but find it foolish to even think about that when I can barely spell ‘CNC’ let alone operate one.
Do I start with a small-scale machine (hobby-type)? Do I just take some on-line trainings? Do I just forget about the whole thing!?
Anyway- any pearls of wisdom from all-a-y’all would be greatly appreciated.
-JJE

I would get software sorted out first if you aren't there already.

There's some paid guys I know around here that will help you get your feet under you. I'm sure other areas have freelance people like that.

Do you have friend's in the business to pick their brains? Service and parts are usually the most common ideas criteria in here to base a decision on which manufacturer to go with.

A shop literally a block from mine, that I'm friendly with, I tried to push them in the direction of the same machine I have. One: it's a good machine. Two: if either of us screw up, we can be backup for one another. Three: I could help them through some of the simple early issues that are usually just stupid, but you don't know what you don't know.

There are several Facebook pages with guys doing the same thing, Remember We all had to integrate CNC and learn from scratch (at least once) There are machine forums for smaller and mid size cnc machines geared towards the new guy, Camaster has Camheads.org and Shopbot has Shopbot.com. these forums are suppport forums for the owners yet allow new guys to come see how and why.

Always go see shops. make friends, You will need that. Go see the plants where they are made. look for those who do not need to trash any of your due diligence about other machines, some of the sales guys are plain BS. yet they may represent a good machine. You are welcome to see my machines. I made the move in 07 with three guys now we are a good 5 times that size and not only do i place much of that to CNC integration but it was a tool to survive the recession.

Good luck done right you will be glad you did this

So here's a thought- Maybe a 3 axis machine with a 4th axis ( rotary) to be able to run turned parts also. Being a cabinet shop, I imagine custom islands are in your forte. Legacy CNC has a great setup for this in particular, with a wealth of knowledge and USA built / support. They have an extensive library of how to in great detail. Also, there may be other guys in upstate NY to help...
Alao, you could check out DB CNC , locally owned and built in Queensbury ( Lake George area) I see he has a variety of machine types.

I have a CNC cabinet shop in upstate NY. You are more than welcome to come and discuss how we started with CNC and how we have evolved over the years to utilize a CNC in our shop. I am about an hour north of Albany and a couple of hours from Watertown. The CMA is a great resource for all things CNC related and like this forum many great and knowledgeable CNC owners. Send me an email if you are interested.
Keith

There are two distinctly different systems you have to learn, and the most time consuming of the two is the software. Originally you had to learn CAD and then CAM. Now it's in the same package. I've yet to see a simple package that does kitchens and furniture well. If you want to design just wall units and shelving, the kitchen software could do alright. But if you want to do more artistic furniture, you'll need to learn a drafting program. CAD is a little difficult to learn because there is at least 5 ways to draw anything. So what an instructor likes may not make you happy in the future. Purchasing a hobby CNC would be a waste of money in my opinion. The controller on the machine is the most difficult thing to understand, and then the actual machine is just a robot. You have to learn feeds and speeds that work for your tooling and materials you are cutting. It's a lot different cutting 8/4 hard maple compared to 3/4" plywood. So I suggest you talk software first. You can learn that on your computer without a machine. Then start talking machines. The most important part for the machine for the first time is support. Either from the company or from a strong social media group of owners. Preferably both. That offer from Keith will be invaluable and I would send him a few jobs to cut for you so you can see if you like the accuracy and results. Outsourcing can be a great starting point. You have a solid price on the parts and it makes bidding much easier. I started running a cnc machine over 20 years ago. The software has to be way better now and hopefully easier to learn.

Rich is pretty much on point in my option. You didnt mention but the first focus would be to get your shop fully to CAD drawings on the shop floor now (software) if you in fact are completely green. If your already outputting detail shop drawings to the floor and doing computer design and layout your half way there. Investing in a 3D printer or something to learn some sort of machine interface would be far better than any hobby level machine.

If your dead green (working from hand drawings/or basic excel sheets) purchase some software and get your shop streamlined. Build libraries, get your head around that end. The machine part after that is pretty basic unless as Rich also mentions your doing a lot of organic work. Thats a whole other level.

I'd never consider a 4th axis as they are super slow and will lock up your machine. If you have a need for volume turnings buy a CNC lathe that will fly out parts in minutes or farm them out. Rotary 4th axis was something I thought I wanted initially until I realized unless I was being paid a fortune for wildly ornate carvings (in which case I'd want 5 axis) it's sit collecting dust.

Lots of good advice above. Everyone is going to look at their personal experience and give advice based upon what was successful for them with CNC integration and what mistakes they made.

For me it was similar to a lot of what was already said. I started with a low cost evening CAD class at the local tech high school back around 1997. From that I began to get a handle on drawing in AutoCAD and coincidentally met and became fast friends with a local industrial electrician who was making the move to CAD for his industrial electrical drawings.

From there it was my first CNC.....a used Digital Tool router from the late 1990s. It was delivered and assembled over a couple days by the seller who then spent about half a day giving me the basics of Enroute CAM software and the control software, the DOS version of what later became WinCNC......which were created by the fellow from whom I purchased the router. This was back in the beginnings of CNC in the wood shop but there was already a division growing between light duty machines like I bought and heavy iron machines like Motion Master, a couple of the earliest players in wood shop routers.

Everyone has different interests and abilities. Some like to walk up to the CNC, push a button and have it do everything it needs to do. Others like me need to know how things work so take them apart and reassemble them to find out. I took that first 2-head CNC, a Digital Tool 902, and reconfigured it with a home made 4-position tool changer. That was my deep introduction into the mechanical and electrical workings of CNC routers. At least the lighter duty kind.

After the router was in place I was immediately able to run simple parts based upon drawing in AutoCAD and setting up tool paths in Enroute. As others have said that can all be done in one CAD/CAM software package now.....although personally I've yet to see any CAD software that I felt can compare to the ease of use and capabilities of AutoCAD. To this day I'll do simple drawing tasks in Enroute (which for many years has been full CAD/CAM capable) and continue to do most of the heavy work in AutoCAD.

The rest came with just running the system. Over time my AutoCAD, Enroute 3D and G-code editing skills improved. You really don't have to worry about that; the work complexity will increase naturally as you figure out more and more what you can do with the router. It can pay to keep notes though as some of the more complex processes you end up figuring out might not need to be used again for several years.

This all worked out well for me. Now that I'm retired I have another early (perhaps 2000 to 2005) era 4x8 CNC router in my retirement shop that I've spent as much time upgrading to modern standards as I've spent using. I enjoy the upgrade process as much as using the machine. Some other parallel path might be best for you. As I said all any of us can do is tell you what worked for our own businesses.

I do have one small pearl of wisdom though. Don't let your first router bit be an expensive router bit. Start with cheap bits for your learning curve and only after you stop breaking bits move to higher end tooling. I don't really need to say why I know this to be the path to wisdom, do I.........chuckle.

BH Davis

Mark, when I say 4th axis, I don't mean it in the way of running marathon .STL programs, I'm referring to the legacy method of 4th axis turning using CCAM, and also multiple sided index style flat program type. CCAM uses the Magnate tool database for turnings. It's basically as simple as theoretically writing the most basic type of GCode. It plays well with V carve/ Aspire

I know what your saying Ian and dont doubt in the right situation it wouldnt work. Ive had turnings done on a CNC lathe that are finished, dead clean, in either seconds or single digit minutes. An outboard 4th that doesnt require setup/takedown from the machine or to take it completely out of sheet processing is one thing but as you state... you'd better have pretty steady work for it.

Mark, true 4th axis isn't always ideal for volume, but 4 legs for an island are better made in house. I run 2 Wema cnc lathes at the day job, and farming out 4 turning can be pricey. Hand turning takes too long.

2 things. It all depends on what your doing now and what you want to do in future
Software is the biggest thing. It has the biggest learning curve and the proper set up will save your hours of time. I would look for one that you can design in for the customer and it will generate code for the CNC in one package. I’ve been the route of designing in one program and building parts in another. It can be done but an integrated set up is the way to go. Most companies have a program that comes with CNC that you can do single parts on.
2nd look at the way you build and how you can change and improve it with a CNC. I spent a lot of time and effort in the beginning trying to bend technology to fit “how we sit it” instead of realizing that I can change the way I do it and utilize the technology easier.
There are dozens of companies out there making good machines, I have owned Biesse machines and currently have an Anderson Selexx that I am very happy with

Ian, Hand turning doesn't take too long in the right shop, and with a simple pattern, a copy lathe will cut a leg in less than 5 minutes in one pass. Plus you get a surface that is far superior to a spinning cutter.

The 4th axis on a flat table machine has the advantage of machining flats, mortises, etc.. but its slow. Spiral fluting, reeds, etc. sure. It all comes down to what you need.

I think every person Ive spoken with said they had a 4th on their wish list at quote (including me) and only one that I know of bought it and its been 3K sitting gathering dust since.

It's a lot to take on if you have day to day responsibility of getting jobs engineered , sold, built , etc...

So just make sure you have a lot of extra time to implement this . It will slow you down before it speeds you up and you have to be financially ready to deal with that .

I would go work for a CNC shop in a programming and maintenance capacity and then when you understand all the ins and outs , take that step. That is what I wish I would have done .

That being said, now that it's all implemented and working , I am pretty sure the only way you can stay relevant and in business if you are a box builder is to go this route.

I feel like I will be overtaken by shops with robots .

It seems biiggeri than it is. If you gotten this far using analog tools, you will be fine. Everyone and their brother is buying x carves, and making beautiful stuff in their own capacity .Albeit that's not the machine you want or need, Karen down the street is routing a big sign that says gather 2 days after getting it. My point is, with the help of modern CAM programs and CAD, there will be hangups until you learn the tools and their functions, but it is very doable. I jumped in head first into 5: axis solid wood with only CNC lathe experience which is rudimentary in comparison. As long as you don't shoot yourself in the foot and buy a machine that can't handle what you want it to do, you'll be ok. Just make sure the control is not some proprietary garbage.

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