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Subject: Re: bits and sizes

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Message Thread:

bits and sizes

2/25/24       
John B Member

Website: http://woodmanseewoodwrights.com

I'm new to cnc world, in fact haven't even set mine up yet, waiting on delivery.
First question, I've been looking at Vcarve pro software as I have a couple friends familiar with it so thinking that might help my transition. I do custom kitchens but don't need 3d drawings etc as most of my jobs come from designers and architects that have already sold the jobs to customers. I will be using mainly for box parts and am familiar with some types of CAD already. Anyone else using Vcarve pro have any thoughts?
Second, what size and style bits are most using for cuttouts of 3/4" maple prefinished ply? I was thinking compression bits but not sure if 1/4", 3/8 or 1/2" diameter. Guessing bigger is less prone to breakage but smaller equals less kerf waste. Any brands That stand out? Im thinking some cheaper ones to start as Ill probably be prone to breaking while in the learning process.

2/25/24       #2: bits and sizes ...
Mike

You might want to start with a mortise compression. I use the 3flute version over 2 flute design. Upshear is 3/16" in length, while the rest is downshear. This gives a good finish on both faces. You can also use it for dados 1/4" in depth or more. Using 3 flutes at 18000 rpm running 1000ipm gives me a chipload of .085. No bit breakage in 25 years. I use Vortex, but others make this style. 3285 or 3285xp bepending on material being cut. For plywood, 3285 is fine. Laminated material might require xp version. Tooling manufacturers want you to be successful. Call with questions, they will help you.

2/25/24       #3: bits and sizes ...
Joe W. Member

It sounds as if vCarve Pro is a good choice to get your start. Just as using some less expensive bits until you learn how to avoid breaking them. The cost in my opinion is affordable.

I have used Cabinet Vision for years to design my cabinets and produce cut sheets. It in my opinion it is grossly over priced. Unfortunately, I didn't learn that lesson until I was invested to the point I had no choice but to continue with it. Because of the cost I started using vCarve Pro to cut my cabinet parts. It's a little time consuming, but I have stream lined moving my cut sheets into vCarve from Cabinet Visions optimizer. vCarve does everything I need to cut cabinet parts.

I also use Aspire for carving 3D. But that is mostly for playing with. I rarely incorporate anything 3D into cabinet work. Besides vCarve Pro can import 3d for use. If you can use Sketchup or take the time to learn to use it, it makes vCarve Pro's use for cabinets even easier.

Also. If you choose to go with vCarve Pro, I highly recommend looking into Kyle Ely's YouTube Channel and his Learn Your CNC course. You will be amazed how fast you will learn vCarve from it.

Good luck.

2/26/24       #4: bits and sizes ...
Wyatt Hanson

V Carve is a good program. I have Aspire which is just the higher level of the software that also does 3D machining. I rarely use the 3D functionality but it is fun to play with and has been useful on jobs in the past occasionally. I use Cabinet Vision for all my cabinet parts. V Carve would be very time consuming to program cabinet parts unless you created a library of standard cabinet parts with machining vectors. As far as I know there is no way to use parametric equations to adjust part sizing and machining based on actual material thicknesses. A S2M software like Cabinet Vision would be invaluable in the long run. You may also look into Mosaik. I know people that use it and like it. I think it may be a little more affordable than Cabinet Vision. Both offer monthly subscriptions. As for bits I would suggest mortise compression bits also. You can dado with them and also have reduced chipping when cutting through thinner materials. I wouldn't use 1/4" bit for through cutting. You would have more bit deflection, break more bits, and have slower feed speeds. I personally use 1/2" but I think a lot of people use 3/8". I plan to switch to 3/8" once I use up the 1/2" bits that I have. I think it is a good balance of feed speeds, strength, and kerf size. I use 2 flute bits. I ran a 3 flute bit once and while cutting through P-lam faced plywood my spindle fried and it cost me $10k. I was later told by the tech that you have to have a certain amount of HP per flute and my machine was underpowered. I think its something like 5 or 6 HP per flute. I would ask the machine manufacturer what they recommend. If you match your feeds and speeds to the chip load of the bit for the material you are cutting you will rarely break a bit. I think I have broken maybe 3 bits in 13 years of owning my machine and running it nonstop 40+ hours a week. I buy my bits from Centurion Tools. They are very reasonably priced and good quality. I tried most of the major brands and didn't see enough of an increase in bit life to account for the added cost.

2/28/24       #5: bits and sizes ...
Tom Gardiner

Be careful of taking feeds, speeds and bit recommendations without knowing the machines compared to what you have. There is no way I could manage 1000 ipm with my lighter machine so a three flute would actually be ruined being limited to my max feed.
I use a two flute 3/8" FS tools compression bit.

2/28/24       #6: bits and sizes ...
Josh Koschak

Check out Frost tooling. Guys are having incredible results. Nic Frost is very active on social media pages and is helping shops out everyday with questions.

2/28/24       #7: bits and sizes ...
Hen Bob

The Frost bits look about the same price as Freud, I've run plenty of 2 flute compression bits, Both Vortex & Freud with similar results from both.
As Tom said, don't just blindly take feed speeds and flute recommendations, if your unsure call Vortex, your tooling supplier, or whoever and tell them your machine and what your cutting. They will get your started in the right direction

2/28/24       #8: bits and sizes ...
Mike

Yes, that is true. If you have a little spindle or small machine, you need to know the power curve of your spindle so you know the horsepower at rpm levels. Then know your target chipload. That will tell you the proper feedspeeds and rpm. Vortex Tool has a nice calculator that is an app you can put on your phone. Or you can look up the formulas. I made a spreadsheet that calculates that 20 years ago for rpm, feed rate or chipload, but apps are convenient.

3/1/24       #9: bits and sizes ...
jerry Member

Instead of Vcarve Pro you may want to look at Cabinet Parts Pro I tried it and it is pretty easy to make a cut file and has a free trial

3/22/24       #10: bits and sizes ...
cheriLongsworth Member

Website: https://virmer.com/

For your first question, Vcarve Pro is a suitable choice for your needs in custom kitchens, particularly for generating toolpaths for box parts. It's advantageous if you already have friends familiar with the software, facilitating your transition. Its emphasis on 2D and 2.5D machining aligns well with your requirements, given that you don't require extensive 3D modeling capabilities.

Regarding your second question, for cutting 3/4" maple prefinished plywood, using compression bits is a wise choice due to their ability to produce clean edges with minimal tear-out. The most common sizes for this application are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" in diameter. While larger bits are generally less prone to breakage, smaller ones produce less kerf waste. Starting with a mid-size option, like a 3/8" diameter bit, might offer a balance between strength and waste reduction. As for brands, starting with more affordable options as you learn is reasonable. Look for reputable brands such as Amana, Whiteside, or Freud, which offer quality bits at various price points.

 

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