CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

CNC worth the investment? What's the best option?

6/19/20       
Jennifer C Member

I own a small 3 owner/operator cabinet shop for the past 9 years building mid to high end custom cabinets. Our company consists of my husband, myself and brother in law. We average about 1 mid to high end custom home (12,000 sqft home~80 cabinets) every month and a half. We build face frame cabinetry and our biggest hang up is the time it takes cutting out cabinet parts, dadoing, drilling and notching for toe. I can cut, build, joint and sand face frames before both of them have boxes ready. We have a large panel saw, table saw, dedicated table saw with dado and adj shelf drill boring machine. I'd like to simplify the process and get a CNC but completely clueless on what options there are as far as CNC machines and what software is best. When we started we used microvellum with the design only version. We have our own excel cutlist sheet so the software has only been for client and shop drawings. I've dabbled with KCD 2 yrs ago on a free trial and currently use Chief Architect because of the rendering abilities, 360 views and 3D walkthroughs for clients. I spend a lot of time doing a manual cutlist and obviously a lot of time is spent on manual cutout of cabinet parts but I don't want to have to take out a mortgage on a CNC and software. Is there such thing as a decent CNC and software for 40-60K (or less?) or is that laughable? The boys think that if a CNC isn't running every day it isn't making money it's costing money. How do I get them to understand that this will save money and time in the long run or am I crazy one?

6/19/20       #2: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
jerry Member

There are several CNC that would work for you that is well within your price range. most of the box parts are standard so you only have to have a few files for them. What you can do is throw a sheet on and let it run while doing other things like assembling the cabinets. You don't need to run the CNC all the time just like you don't run the rest of your tools constantly. also you may be able to pick up other work for it.

6/19/20       #3: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
james e mcgrew  Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

There is little to think "Laughable" about a mid size CNC with a ATC. mine is a 2012 Camaster with 25hp vacuum and dedicated dust collector. at this point our volume is higher thasn the one you listed and we pretty much were at the point you are in 2007.

we have used most all softwares (except) MV since 1997. When I buy a tool I learnedto by My 2nd need first and this meant i had bought the tool to last for a decade +

With your volume you will have cut Box parts machined and ready to assemble in 3-5 hours


View higher quality, full size image (1600 X 1064)


View higher quality, full size image (1600 X 1064)

6/19/20       #4: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Stuart Douglas Member

Get a 4x8 sheet nester (go with a 5x12 table if there is anyway you can) and throw the whole sheet on there. The Thermwood machines come with free software (eCabS) that will get you started fast, just as an example. You can move to another software with fuller features if you grow into the need. Unless you get a junk machine, any money you spend on a CNC machine will be worth every penny, if you actually use it. if you run it 50% of the time, then it just takes twice as long to pay off the loan, that's all. The efficiency it adds to processing is pretty much a no-brainer. Don't be afraid to jump in, but be as educated as you can about your first machine. It will flatten the learning curve quite a bit if you are not working around limitations of the machine. You will certainly want ATC and 6 tool holders or so, to make the necessary cabinet operations. VISIT a shop somewhere that is running the machine you plan to purchase to SEE the workflow and software in use. IMHO.

6/19/20       #5: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Joe Knobbe

Just a different way to look at this. Have you considered outsourcing your cabinet boxes - allowing you to focus on selling, finishing and installs?

Cabinotch

6/19/20       #7: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Jennifer C Member

Thank you all for your help and advice. Yes we have a local company who we could farm out box parts to. We already have another local company/friend who builds drawer boxes and doors/drawers for us. He recently got a CNC which is part of the reason why I'm curious about getting one ourselves but he's a larger operation with just over 30 employees and builds frameless cabinets. I'm not sure what CNC he has but I know he uses Cabinet Vision and paid over 60k and flew one of his employees out to get training with their CNC. We decided early on to have another company do doors and dovetail drawer boxes for us to allow us to fit more jobs in a year. This allowed for more door styles for clients as well. Only issue is it ends up being about 10% of the cost of any job. My husband isn't interested in farming out even more of our stuff to someone else with a CNC. My thoughts are then lets do it in house and be that much more efficient in getting jobs out faster. You have a good point not every tool we own is used every hour of every day. With everyone getting taller ceilings we'd want a larger table to fit 10' sheets for sure. What brands would you say would be great "beginner" CNCs that you could tool up or add to later down the road as your finances or needs required? (is that even a possible thing?) Total newbie here sorry! Is there a resource that would be helpful to learn more about different options other than local companies and salesmen? There's a shopbot for sale locally but just don't know if that's a good brand for cabinetry industrial work or more like really enthusiastic woodworking hobbyist if that makes sense? lol

6/19/20       #8: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Alan F. Member

For 80 boxes your machine would run about 14-16 hours a month. This would give you the ability to sell more or produce more work in the same amount of time or bring some items back in house or go fishing more.

What is your cutting time for 80 boxes?

Then there is the huge advantage for any irregular shape, radius-ed or odd shaped parts that can be machined from the drawing.

We bought our first CNC in 95, we started looking in 88 and got serious in 94.

That first step up to CNC is a big decision cost and impact wise but there are just so many benefits beyond production increases.

You may need more power and clean air.

A-

6/19/20       #9: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
james e mcgrew  Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

Shop Bot has a forum for its owners as well as CAMaster

Feel free to Join CAMheads it has a few 10 of thoudands on;ine like yourself,, While it is a CAMaster forum it is moderated by Owners not salesmen ot techs.

remember to use the activation email you will get so you can see photos and post

Camheads

6/19/20       #10: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Quicktrim

FWIW

I bought an Anderson Stratos 5x10 for 30,000.00 at auction. It will cost some to get software and other things for it. But if you educate yourself you can save a ton and all your boxes will be perfect. You will save so much time you can bring other ops in house and capture that money too.

I cut all my dovetail drawer boxes on it also so I only outsource doors now.

It will take a lot of effort and time to get there but if you don’t I am afraid you will be a dinosaur.

6/20/20       #11: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Kevin Dunphy

Website: http://www.kdunphy.com

I'm a small shop there are cnc for almost every budget l can speak for shopbot great machine .James love to prompt his cnc have to agree great machine .
What the cnc machines does you realize the cabinet are just boxes simple .
I don't think my shop would be open without a cnc

6/20/20       #12: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Ian

Check these guys out, they have a combination router / drill block available for their machines. You could run sheet nesting operations and drill in one process. With a saw aggregate you can keep your end mill tooling cost down also. When you get comfortable with the machine, you can work on 3d modeling or even buy .STL files for accent architecture- corbels and such.My only advice is to get more Z than you think you will need. Make a list of all the possibilities that you may manufacture. Take into account fixturing height and initial size of the component. Aggregate tooling opens up many possibilities.Don't forget that a cnc is an employee who doesn't need lunch breaks . We gain time running it through lunches and breaks.Also once the program is proven, you can be doing other things. Now you are effectively two people.

RouterCad

6/20/20       #13: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Thomas

Jennifer,
What you are asking has been asked over and over. Not a problem, the answer is usually the same. I wish we would have bought one sooner, and I wish I would have spent more. All of us who own a cnc have made these statements. A cnc can and will increase your out put. It will cut, drill, optimize and make your dado's faster than all three of you can. It will open the doors for other opportunities. All of this is possible even if you are using inexpensive software like sketchup and vcarve. (not looking for an argument guys just stating the facts)
It sounds like the three of you are working to your limit now. A good cnc can be had for less than $1000.00 a month. Less than you will pay for another employee in salary, workmans comp, taxes and ect. Bite the bullet....you will say, " I wish we had done this earlier and I wish we would have spent more money."

6/20/20       #14: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
james e mcgrew  Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

"Other Opportunitys" Plenty of that with a little application and yes with Vectric Vcarve and Aspire (other than Moziak)

I I ran this file 30 miles away from the cnc while working at my Farm. Just had a fellow go and clean up while the CNC ran

This is a mould cut as a negative in PVC A self build Homeowner is making his own Concrete Columns and arches for the entrances to his home

This is the main door arch over and I will show more later

If you are seeing this message, your version of flash needs to be upgraded to view this video.
Click here to get the latest version of the Flash player.


View higher quality, full size image (1293 X 666)


View higher quality, full size image (1807 X 969)

6/23/20       #15: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
jon

Buy your second machine first even if it is more than you want to spend. With your volume it won't run a lot. This is a good thing. If it takes the cnc 10 hours to do what would have taken 25 hours to do then you just saved 15 hours plus spent that amount of time doing something else that is making you money. It opens a lot of doors that you could not have done before. Once you get one and learn how to use it with dados, shelves holes, holes for runners and hinges, ext. you will wonder how you did without it. The more you learn the more things you can offer. We make a lot of custom glass mullion mdf doors and all kinds of arches. I cut out 4 mdf glass doors last week with a couples hours on the computer and a 3 hour cnc time and sold for $1,600. Made the monthly cnc payment and covered my time all in a few hours.

6/28/20       #16: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Pintuu Member

Website: https://www.pintuu.com/

Hi! As a global supply chain management provider, our suggestion is to rent a CNC machine since you only need to use it some times not always taking cost into consideraton. In addition, you could source CNC service outside.

7/6/20       #17: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Jeff

I am not sure where you are located, but without trying to be a downer as we already have enough doom and gloom in the world. I think the recession coming in a lot of areas will be a lot worse than 2008.
I would try find someone who can educate you on CNC’s as for what to look for to meet your requirements, including software and tooling.
I would then start looking for a used machine, I could be totally out to lunch, but that is the norm for me. You should be able to pick up machines 20-40 cents on the dollar.

8/25/20       #19: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
FORSUNCNC Member

Website: http://forsuncnc.com/

Over the past few years, CNC router machines have been an absolute necessity in the manufacturing sector. They successfully replaced manual machines across various industrial sectors. CNC routers help manufacturers save labor and improve work efficiency, so they have been the most popular machines all over the world, and widely used to cut and carve wood, metal, plastic, stone, foam, and so on.

As you can see, CNC Router has a broad market and development prospects, as long as you develop appropriate strategies and make full use of existing resources, you will definitely be able to read a lot.

If you want to know more about this, I suggest you check this link portable: How to Make Money with CNC Routers?. Hope it can help you learn more about CNC machine tools.

http://forsuncnc.com/make-money-with-cnc-routers/

2/22/22       #20: CNC worth the investment? What's th ...
Carter Asco Member

You can move to another software with fuller features if you grow into the need. Unless you get a junk machine, any money you spend on a CNC machine will be worth every penny, if you actually use it.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Onsrud Cutter Vortex Tool Company T-Tool USA
    Sponsors
    • Limtech Industries, Inc.
      CNC Routers, Machinery for Woodworking, Plastic and Other Non-ferrous Metal Machining Applications
    • Weinig Group-USA
      Wood Moulders and Knife Grinding Equipment
    • NEMI
      Products For CNC Machines - Digitizers, Tool Setters, Vacuum Pods, Vacuum Cups, Vacuum Tables, Vacuum Chucks and Software
    • Southeast Tool, Inc.
      High Quality Tooling at Competitive Pricing
    • MachineryMax
      New and Used Machinery for the Professional Woodworker
    • Safety Speed Manufacturing
      Economical Vertical Panel Saws, Panel Routers, Edgebanders and Widebelt Sanders
    • ULTI-BOARD
      The Ultimate Spoilboard - ULTI-BOARD - Specifically Engineered and Formulated for the Ultimate in Spoilboard Performance - Not Your Ordinary Sheet of MDF.
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • Charles G.G. Schmidt Co.
      Tooling for Shapers, Moulders, Tenoners, Planers and Routers
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • Holz-Her US Inc.
      Custom Edgebanders, Vertical Panel Saws, CNC Beam Saws, Wide Belt Sanders, CNC Point to Point Boring Machines, CNC Routers
    • Biesse America
      Woodworking Machinery - Machining Centers, Edge Banders, Feeders/Stackers, Panel Sizing Centers
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations

    Become a Sponsor today!