CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Sheets per day on a CNC

10/3/21       
Matt Member

Hello everyone.
I'm part of a production cabinet shop and we are upgrading our cnc. We know we want and auto load/unload cnc, but would like your input on what we can realistically get out of one and what brand you use.
We're looking to get 100 sheets a day though it with a typical cabinet part nest. Obviously there will be some variation.
Please let me know what you all use and can get through it in a day.

10/3/21       #2: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
RichC

Are you using an aggregate head? Drilling dowel contraction holes, shelf holes, joinery for the back or just stapling the back on? My point? I don't think there is any such thing as a typical cabinet parts nest.

10/4/21       #3: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Hen Bob Member

I think the other question would be. What is the production flow of the rest of your shop? Can your bander keep up? Finishing department? assembly? delivery? Sure a router can be cutting sheets nonstop all day but if the rest can't keep up your not getting anywhere....

I would think any of the top end Big machines should be able to handle it. Good software will be key in getting the most yield per day

10/4/21       #4: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Rob Young  Member

Website: http://www.nutekmachinery.com

The number of sheets you process in a day will be determined by several factors.
The type of cabinet construction you use, most importantly the number of Z axis movements you use. The Z axis is the slowest moving of all the axis on your machine if you are constantly moving into and out of the panel your cycle time will be slower. The more holes you drill, this is also often the process with slowest feed speed, the slower your cycle times.

The software you use is also going to be extremely important as some software will use bridge cutting and keep the tooling in the panel while other software is constantly moving the tooling up and down, sometimes cutting each part to completion before moving to the next part. The software you use and cutting options will be a key factor in your cycle times.

The acceleration/deceleration of your axis is also key. Most parts are square, and you have to slow down for corners and accelerate for the linear cutting line after finishing the corner. The faster your acc/dec is the faster your cycle times will be and the faster you can cut in those linear lines. When you calculate the feed speed for cutting you should be using a chip load calculation to increase the life of your tooling. Chip load is determined by material type and tooling diameter. The feed and rpm of the spindle are set to give the proper chip size. There are plenty of CNCs out there that will allow you to cut fast in a linear line but the acc/dec isn’t fast enough and you will end up burning up your bits in the corners.

The organization of your shop will also determine your success in volume cutting. If your machine has to wait an excessive amount of time on materials, you’re losing production time. There needs to be good communication between operator and forklift driver to minimize the time spent waiting.

The most important factor in producing more parts is the offload table. This allows parts to be unloaded while parts are being cut. The load/unload cycle of a machine will likely be in the 45-70 second range. If you have adequate dust collection and your table is clean you can start cutting. If your dust collection isn’t up to snuff, you’ll have to clean the table to pull a good vacuum, meaning you won’t be able to load/unload simultaneously and you will lose production time.

There are a few other ways to increase production. If you are running the same program more than once and all drilled holes are through holes you can stack cut those parts provided you have the right machine. This will require you to manually load multiple panels since you can’t use an auto loader to do it but if your can cut 2 or 3 panels high you will ultimately produce more parts in less time. You won’t cut at the same feed rate as you would cutting one high, but the end result will still be more parts cut in less time. This will require organization and planning on your part. You have to recognize which parts you require would allow you to do this and make certain all the parts on the sheet lend to stack cutting production. It will take a little time to get the hang of it, but the reward is better production efficiency. Many shops are all custom though and this type of production won’t fit their needs.

Depending on your process there may be more efficient ways to process panels through out your shop. Sometimes a better solution is a beam saw paired with a vertical machining center.

Feel free to contact me if you have questions or if you want to discuss the CNC we offer. We are currently finishing negotiations to bring a well known Italian CNC and Beam Saw line to the U.S. market. Our expertise is practical, in plant production expertise with a focus on providing well-built reliable European machinery.

10/4/21       #5: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
cris

35 with blind dado. 40 -50 with dowel.

10/4/21       #6: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Woody Holmes Construction Inc.

Dowel we average 40

10/4/21       #7: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Karl E Brogger  Member

Website: http://www.sogncabinets.com

40 if I push. Dado construction. Cutting stretchers, nailers, shelves, toe kicks, mitred toe kicks, finished ends, and pocket screws.

10/4/21       #8: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
cabinetmaker

we are running 60 -80 a day - on good days and all cylinders are firing

that is - all clients have approved samples and shops are updated and the dreaded materials are in

Thant being said - major impacts- materials staging and flow into the cnc, off the cnc- labeled for secondary machining and assembly.

we can cut 20 sheets of 1/4" for backs and drawer bottoms in an hour or less with hand load and unload as we have no auto positioning pusher, hower the base cabinets and their drawer parts are hell

This morning we cut and lablelled 23 sheets by 930 am- all wall cabinets

I cut 11 corian tops with sink cutout in 18 minutes on friday and we shippined them out after glueing, assembly and sanding on Sat

There is a lot that goes into the cutting per hour sheet equation including hauling and dust collection emptying

Yes, your secondary machines need to keep up along with assembly and materials logistics

Excuse me I have to order another 22k in sheets goods for next week - don't forget the working capital

10/5/21       #9: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Zach Nelson Member

We have a Biesse Rover S 1536ft with automatic outfeed but no i feed and we average roughly 10-12 sheets and hour for kitchens. This is with dowel construction, 32mm adjustable shelf holes, and a 1/4" dado for the backs. We have a dowel insertion machine for the shelf dowels as well.

I really like the Biesse machine and the Bsolid software that runs it. On the rare occasion we have issues the Biesse support is outstanding.

10/6/21       #10: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Stephen Williams  Member

Website: http://www.partscuttercnc.com

Zack

Thats fast

Do you have a scoring blade aggregate for the dado?
How big is the drill bank, in vertical bores?

Thanks

10/6/21       #11: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Zach Nelson Member

I use a 9/32 downshear router bit for the dado. My head has 5 bits in the y and 7 in the x.

A lot of work went into optimizing our design to eliminate unnecessary machining and playing with the nesting optimization.

10/7/21       #12: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Matt Member

Zack
Was the Biesse software helpful in the optimization to eliminate wasteful cnc movements/ cutting?
I currently use mozaiks optimization and it seems like it runs all over the board

We're going with a biesse rover a with load and unload.

10/7/21       #13: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
cabinetmaker

we are running CV 2021 and CV 11 from Cabinet Vision We have support in minutes generally

Our nesting is not all over the place

There are two of us feeding our Rover S. It has a push off conveyor, with Labeli It @ the end on an arm above the conveyor that can swing away

I just ran 20 sheets in an hour - tall cabinets builds, no drawer boxes, ready for banding, doweling and assembly

10/7/21       #14: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Zach Nelson Member

Matt,

Yes the Biesse software does a very good job of optimization for us.

10/7/21       #15: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Joseph Stahl

I live and breath maximizing the cnc speed.
These are the factors.
1.Auto unloading table.
2.Auto loading table.
3.Cabinet construction style.Like others have mentioned , examine the way you build cabinets. Too many dados,blind dados and unnecessary drilling really slows things down. Dowels is the fastest.
4. Gang drill coordination. 5mm Shelf drills along the x axis 8 mm along the y (if you do dowels. Try to match patterns. (if you have 5 adj shelf holes have 5 drills in a row).
5. Maximize feed speeds of each bit.
6.Software. Stay down outline cutting if you have the option.
7. This is a big one. Literally. Use oversized sheets if possible for your most common stock (white melamine 5/8 or 3/4).You save a ton of load/unload cycles if the sheets are bigger 9'X5' is the simplest.(assuming you cnc table is that big. You also spread you cutting out over a larger area , so less flycuts and longer spoilbiard life.
8. Use 1'' mdf for the spoilboard . Lasts 50% longer. (assuming you bolt your sheed down the last 3/8 you cant use as you are cutting into the plastic bolts).

10/7/21       #16: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Stephen Williams  Member

Website: http://www.partscuttercnc.com

Joseph

"Software. Stay down outline cutting if you have the option."

Do you mean a down shear bit or is it a tool strategy?

Thanks

Steve

10/7/21       #17: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Joseph Stahl Member

Its a software setting . Its called that in CV. But it means that the bit stays down while doing the outlines. It links them all together instead of cutting each part individually. Less part movement also.
I'm sure other software has this feature also.

10/7/21       #18: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Stephen Williams  Member

Website: http://www.partscuttercnc.com

Thanks

10/7/21       #19: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
cabinetmaker

yes maximizing what you have the machine spending time is imperative, but the Rover S runs cix files and its gonna drill where and how it wants

I would not waste my time trying to drill a 35mm cup hole for hinges as the drill block's clutch or blow by will kick in

We used to have to slow down our old Rover 30 to cut cup hinges, but I am not sure if this one does it or we control it in CV

anyway, Biesse has been our machines for about 20 years, great people all around

10/8/21       #20: Sheets per day on a CNC ...
Derrek

Website: http://closeted.com

Lots of good stuff here from everyone.
I’ve run the Biesse Rover S with auto load and Unloading. We are currently running an Anderson Selex with auto unload only and are matching or exceeding what we were running on the Biesse with a simple set of rollers for loading.
We drill slab doors for hinges and handles all the time. The 35mm down speed has to be set slower.
We used to cut dados with 1/4” and it would have to pocket out the dado. We switched to 3/8” bit and fixed dados siz to 3/8” saved a bunch of time. You can’t sharpen that bit though or your dados won’t fit.
Big one for us is that operator understanding that machine cannot sit idle at anytime.
We have regularly run 80 sheet days back to back.
Anderson has a Full Line system that has an auto loader that lifts panel into place opposed to the drag it in place like the Biesse does.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Suction Cups, Vacuum Lifters, Vacuum Pumps from Anver Corporation ecabinet systems.com Thermwood Limtech Industries, Inc.
    Sponsors
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • Colonial Saw
      North American Supplier of Striebig Panel Saws, Lamello Specialty Tools and a Wide Range of Saw and Tool Grinding Machinery
    • EX-FACTORY INC.
      Offering New & Used Woodworking Machinery including Auctions & Liquidations
    • Biesse America
      Woodworking Machinery - Machining Centers, Edge Banders, Feeders/Stackers, Panel Sizing Centers
    • Mereen-Johnson Machine Company
      Manufacturers of High Production Woodworking Machinery
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • SainSmart
      CNC and Engraving machines for Makers
    • Felder USA
      High Quality Woodworking Machines and Tools
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • Thermwood Corporation
      Computer Numerical Control (CNC) Routers and Accessories
    • ETK International
      New and Used Woodworking Machinery, Spare Parts and Superior Service
    • Weinig Group-USA
      Wood Moulders and Knife Grinding Equipment
    • Limtech Industries, Inc.
      CNC Routers, Machinery for Woodworking, Plastic and Other Non-ferrous Metal Machining Applications

    Become a Sponsor today!