Post a Response Subscribe Guidelines

CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

ATC with carousel vs without

11/10/21

I'm debating between very similarly equipped and priced CNC machines. Both have ATC's, one has holders across the head of the bed and the other has an 8-tool carousel. Is the carousel enough of a difference to tip the scales to that machine. I'll be processing 3/4 and 1/2 sheet goods for typical cabinet production, and don't anticipate a ton of tool changes for normal operations.

11/11/21 #2: ATC with carousel vs without ...

james e mcgrew

Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

A Carosel frees up an edge on the table, this can be good for loading and unloading reasons, and can take a few seconds shorter time to conduct a tool change as it is just closer to the z head.

originally my tool rack was on the end of my machine, I had it moved to the side because i wanted to load from an end and remove from a side. this was a good decision for this set up.

my second machine has a on and off loader and uses a carosel

it is all about set up and thinking growth in use for your cnc

that said the actual function is the same

View higher quality, full size image (1600 X 1064)

11/11/21 #3: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Mike

Another difference which is a plus for the ride along carousel is the machine does not have to stop, rapid over to the rack to unload and reload another tool. The change can be performed without machine travel which equates to faster cycle times. My 2 cents worth.

11/11/21 #4: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Dropout

Member

Or you get an old Biesse like mine with 2 spindles - loads the tool in one while the other is cutting. 3 seconds from one tool to the next.

Seriously, ride along is best.

Make sure you get a drill block. For cabinets that's more important than where the tool changer is located.

11/12/21 #5: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Bill

Member

I am not sure of your experience with CNC or you application but I wish I had more tools ride along or not. The longer we have the machines the more we want to do with them.

11/12/21 #6: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Dropout

Member

12 isn't enough. Even with a drill block.

11/12/21 #7: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Mike

I disagree with 12 not being enough. Standard tools including the fly cutter should take up 9-10 slots, leaving 3 for putting in odd ball tools that you may need from time to time like left hand tools, or profile tools. With automatic touch off probes, the addition of a non standard tool is just minutes. This is coming from a guy that cuts everything from hardwood, composites, laminated material and plastic.

11/12/21 #8: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Bill

Member

I disagree. If you are "the guy" changing the tools than maybe its not a big deal. If you have operators eliminating the opportunity to pull the wrong tool and crash the machine is worth the extra slots and money in my opinion.

What are regular tools? That is different for everyone.

11/12/21 #9: ATC with carousel vs without ...

CODY KAUZLARICH

So, the decision is between a shopsabre pro and a camaster Panther. I was leaning heavily towards the shopsabre but the camaster has an eight tool carousel and the shopsabre can be outfitted with a 10 tool holder across the end of the bed. I will be cutting carcass parts to size, plowing dados, and drilling shelf pins. Typically...

11/12/21 #10: ATC with carousel vs without ...

james e mcgrew

Member

Website: mcgrewwoodwork.com

Ask the Owners all of them

CAMaster provides an direct Owner to Owner forum

http://www.camheads.org

11/12/21 #11: ATC with carousel vs without ...

duster

I have a Shop Sabre Pro408 with a 10 position tool rack. If I had 20 positions, I probably would have them all filled. Granted, for cabinet work you only need 4 or 5 tools to do almost everything. But we do a lot of different things besides building boxes, and having all those tools ready to go saves a lot of time.

11/15/21 #12: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Mike

Bill,
Glad I do not have your operators. I have notes in all of my programs that detail the tooling involved. Not have a problem in 19 years, but then again, I have only had 3 operators in all of that time. Yes, I do consider myself lucky in that regard.

11/15/21 #13: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Bill

Member

Mike my operators are excellent. All our process are geared to limit errors. If you are not swapping tools in and out it limits opportunities for for something to go wrong. Even if it is as simple as dropping or banging a tool when handling.

11/15/21 #14: ATC with carousel vs without ...

Dropout

Member

Operator quality is one thing, but changing tooling is time.

Don't know what your machine time is worth but I'll bet all told it costs $20.00 to change a tool. Once a week is $1,000 per year...

11/16/21 #15: ATC with carousel vs without ...

AcctekChina

Member

Website: https://www.acctekgroup.com/CNCRouter/

Considering from many aspects, cnc router should choose more good quality spindles. The tools are secondary.

12/16/21 #16: ATC with carousel vs without ...

D Conti

Without a doubt as many tool positions as you can get. Changing out tools is not difficult but anytime you change a tool in a position there is always a chance for a mistake. Of course then you have to change it back as well. You have to make sure that ALL your software that runs on that machine has the change as well. Did I make that change in V carve as well? It is just a lot to keep up with. As far as carousal vs bed positions. Carousal will be somewhat faster tool change. If you are running your machine 8 hrs each sift then you will gain some time. The draw back of carousals is that they are attached to the head of the machine and as that machine moves rapidly form all positions on the table it is slinging that carousal, tooling and everything with it, all that weight is putting extra force on the gantry. No problem if the gantry is built stout enough to take it. Also a carousal also has to stay in the same plane all the time in order to deliver the bit to the proper x,y,z coordinate. Again not an issue if properly designed and stout enough to take years of use. A line of tooling at the head or side of the table will have to go through some serious abuse not to be in the same position through out the life of the machine. It is a pretty much a no brainer about picking up a tool from the head of the machine, there is really not much that can go wrong. The question is how much are you going to be using your machine every day, and how long do you really expect it to last until you are ready to replace it? Carousal machines need to be and usually are a bit more heavy duty and as such cost a little more. I myself do not use my cnc everyday and hope to have it for a very long time (My first cnc I had 20 yrs and replaced it more for upgrades then mechanical reasons) I have tool changes at the head of the machine, I fell there is just less to go wrong with that system, and the time lost by the exchange is not that great to me since I am not running the machine at full capacity, but each situation and application is different.

Post a Response

Notify me of responses to this thread

Subscribe to email updates on this Forum

Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.

Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.

A valid email return address must be included with each message.

Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.

Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.

"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.

Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.

Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.

Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.

Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.

Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.

Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.

Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
(return to top).

Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)

Forum Posting Help
Your Name	The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
Your Website	Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
E-Mail Address	Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
Subject	Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines	Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
Thread Related File Uploads	Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)

Related Information:
Products: Computer Software
Knowledge Base: Computerization

Recent Threads at all Forums

To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread, enter your name and email address, and then click the "Keep Me Posted" button below. Please Note: If you have posted a message or response, *do not* submit this request ... you are already signed up to receive notification!
Your Name:
E-Mail Address:
Enter the correct numbers into the field below:

Date of your Birth:	Return to top of page

CNC

ATC with carousel vs without

FORUM GUIDELINES

Forum Posting Help

Sponsors