Hey everybody. Hope this winter is treating you well. Now that I've been frozen out of my shop for a while I've been nosing around the net for some new ideas and came across what was probably a more popular art form in the 70s, but is still quite captivating....parametric wall art design (pic below)...which of course led quickly to studying the gorgeous CNC machines that produce these designs and their associated software.

I like the tiling feature the X Carve Pro offers but I haven't read about it being offered on any other CNC machine. What Inventables calls 'tiling' is where you can cut pieces larger than your CNC table by sliding your wood/material through and let it do one section at a time.

1) Is there any way to make the AVID PRO 510 do this tiling function or is this something only Xcarve has right now?

2) V Carve Pro is SO expensive! Is there ANY way to get it cheaper than it's retail price? I've seen where you can get an activation code if you're part of an educational group, so wonder if that could be cheaper. Also, would be nice to be able to split a subscription with someone.

3) I believe I've seen where Fusion 360 was suggested as a good program to use if you're working with parametric designs. Any opinions on this?

4) And last, I'm still searching for the best forum to ask these kinds of CNC and software questions. If there's a more appropriate place than here please do let me know.

Thanks

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Hi Brad,

Look into Enroute. They have excellent parametric texture features that can be tiled. I think the cost is higher than that of V-Carve but they do offer a monthly subscription.

I believe that RhinoCAM may also have a plug-in that produces these type of panels.

Good luck in your search.

You can have some real fun and profit when it all comes together

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"2) V Carve Pro is SO expensive! Is there ANY way to get it cheaper than it's retail price? I've seen where you can get an activation code if you're part of an educational group, so wonder if that could be cheaper. Also, would be nice to be able to split a subscription with someone."

Im not really sure how you can feel VCarve Pro is expensive. As James mentioned, Aspire is a go-to for many and its far more than VCarve and the bonus with either is your not stuck in a subscription. Its one and done, pay for upgrades as you choose, your software will work in perpetuity if you choose to stay with your current version. This is not the case with many others and subscriptions go up every year like clockwork.

What your finding is that the machine is only a small piece of the puzzle. Without the skill/software/tooling that follows (which can often times be a massive percentage of the total machine cost) your sunk.

Parametric work like that is all going to be on the CAD side.

VCarve Pro is cheaper than dirt, considering what it does. It's the best value of any CNC software I've used, for certain. Better toolpath editing, better support, better user interface, and more frequent updates than my crazy overpriced $26k cabinet software. If you're a professional, you should be able to easily pay for the software with your first job.

Hi Brad,

I was looking at your post again and I realised that the photo you posted is not just of an MDF panel that has been carved out. Instead it's a series of pieces that have been cut out and sandwiched together to make that organic, flowing surface. This can still be produced with Enroute by using their texture surface and then the slice tool to slice it into a series of 2D shapes that can be routed out.

I don't have much hands on experience with V-carve or Aspire to know if that they can do this or not ( I am sure other users will have some input) but from what I have seen Vectric makes good, user friendly and cost effective software. I would agree with other comments that the price is very reasonable. The reality is in order to make effective use of your CNC you will require an investment of both time and money into software.

The bigger issue with pieces like this is it not really in the cam, its how do you generate the organic shape (.STL, .STEP, whatever) to then be sliced in CAD. That shape in the images has multiple interacting wave contours AND has a little bench/seat incorporated into the wave form. There isnt any piece of sofware that I I know of that allows you to generate those wave forms and then augment them _parametrically_ to where you can create that wall form easily which is why its cool, and why the question is being asked.

These organic shapes are simply not super easy to generate. Textures like what McGrew posted are pretty easy, amplitude, wave, depth, randomization.. but the simple fact is they lack the organic feel that people are trying for.

Its why the water drop, with 2-3 interacting drops, is so hard. Its just not plug and play.

I had the thought that those textured panels must be a mess to keep clean in a public area. From lint balls to kids dropping a sucker into the grooves of that super contoured piece.

Check this videos - Rhino + Grasshopper
https://www.youtube.com/c/ParametricHouse/videos

Actually it's relatively easy to use Enroute to create these organic surfaces and slice them up. They have a parametric surface tool that allows you to create these forms by adjusting dialogue boxes. There's a couple of links here that show that :

https://youtu.be/5X0WkmadhoI

https://youtu.be/0MMTheiUzF4

Then they have a slice tool that you can see here:

https://youtu.be/oIC08EXemWg

Regarding the comment about the bench, I am pretty sure that you could merge that shape into the panel.

As for keeping it clean, that's not my problem!!!

Even enroute's generation tool for this is not technically parametric in a dynamic sense. Even in your videos its one thing to create a texture (repeating) or with some randomizaton but these organic shapes with multiple interacting wave fronts, then add in the bench.. is far from easy.

I know you mentioned the bench but its very far from a simple component to add to a model. Again, look into these type models that generate solids from something like a multiple water drop on a surface where those wave forms interact.

As crazy as it seems... the organic interaction of those waves is what draws people into these type of shapes. Its not a simple process. When they are generated via quick math (sliders and value boxes) they just never have the same feel. Then again, you add in sculpting a bench... its a LOT of work.

Rich C,
Even a cold, sterile, Orwellian, monolithic slab, meant to be easily cleaned is not easy to clean in a public space. Medical spaces and hygiene even often times coexist with beautiful shapes and textures.

If we all had to live in spaces designed by the functional logic of the average Midwesterner (not that thats you), I'd imagine cleaning blood and brain tissue off the surfaces would be a design criteria due to the misery of peoples existence in a world of square corners and government surplus battleship gray.. Conjures up the memory of what we were programmed to thing the USSR was in grade school.

I would be utterly delighted to walk around the corner of a corridor and see that "thing" hanging off the wall. Even if it had an everlasting gobstopper permanently jammed between two segments.

You're probably right Mark. I can imagine that if someone had the had the skills and creativity then a form designed from scratch would likely be far more pleasing. I suppose it comes down to how much time you have to invest in such a project. It could be that farming out the creation of the STL file would be the way to go. Then it would be a fairly simple process to get it out to the CNC.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that at times function has to give way to beauty, otherwise life is just too dull!

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