CNC

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

bits and sizes

2/25/24       
John B Member

Website: http://woodmanseewoodwrights.com

I'm new to cnc world, in fact haven't even set mine up yet, waiting on delivery.
First question, I've been looking at Vcarve pro software as I have a couple friends familiar with it so thinking that might help my transition. I do custom kitchens but don't need 3d drawings etc as most of my jobs come from designers and architects that have already sold the jobs to customers. I will be using mainly for box parts and am familiar with some types of CAD already. Anyone else using Vcarve pro have any thoughts?
Second, what size and style bits are most using for cuttouts of 3/4" maple prefinished ply? I was thinking compression bits but not sure if 1/4", 3/8 or 1/2" diameter. Guessing bigger is less prone to breakage but smaller equals less kerf waste. Any brands That stand out? Im thinking some cheaper ones to start as Ill probably be prone to breaking while in the learning process.

2/25/24       #2: bits and sizes ...
Mike

You might want to start with a mortise compression. I use the 3flute version over 2 flute design. Upshear is 3/16" in length, while the rest is downshear. This gives a good finish on both faces. You can also use it for dados 1/4" in depth or more. Using 3 flutes at 18000 rpm running 1000ipm gives me a chipload of .085. No bit breakage in 25 years. I use Vortex, but others make this style. 3285 or 3285xp bepending on material being cut. For plywood, 3285 is fine. Laminated material might require xp version. Tooling manufacturers want you to be successful. Call with questions, they will help you.

2/25/24       #3: bits and sizes ...
Joe W. Member

It sounds as if vCarve Pro is a good choice to get your start. Just as using some less expensive bits until you learn how to avoid breaking them. The cost in my opinion is affordable.

I have used Cabinet Vision for years to design my cabinets and produce cut sheets. It in my opinion it is grossly over priced. Unfortunately, I didn't learn that lesson until I was invested to the point I had no choice but to continue with it. Because of the cost I started using vCarve Pro to cut my cabinet parts. It's a little time consuming, but I have stream lined moving my cut sheets into vCarve from Cabinet Visions optimizer. vCarve does everything I need to cut cabinet parts.

I also use Aspire for carving 3D. But that is mostly for playing with. I rarely incorporate anything 3D into cabinet work. Besides vCarve Pro can import 3d for use. If you can use Sketchup or take the time to learn to use it, it makes vCarve Pro's use for cabinets even easier.

Also. If you choose to go with vCarve Pro, I highly recommend looking into Kyle Ely's YouTube Channel and his Learn Your CNC course. You will be amazed how fast you will learn vCarve from it.

Good luck.

2/26/24       #4: bits and sizes ...
Wyatt Hanson

V Carve is a good program. I have Aspire which is just the higher level of the software that also does 3D machining. I rarely use the 3D functionality but it is fun to play with and has been useful on jobs in the past occasionally. I use Cabinet Vision for all my cabinet parts. V Carve would be very time consuming to program cabinet parts unless you created a library of standard cabinet parts with machining vectors. As far as I know there is no way to use parametric equations to adjust part sizing and machining based on actual material thicknesses. A S2M software like Cabinet Vision would be invaluable in the long run. You may also look into Mosaik. I know people that use it and like it. I think it may be a little more affordable than Cabinet Vision. Both offer monthly subscriptions. As for bits I would suggest mortise compression bits also. You can dado with them and also have reduced chipping when cutting through thinner materials. I wouldn't use 1/4" bit for through cutting. You would have more bit deflection, break more bits, and have slower feed speeds. I personally use 1/2" but I think a lot of people use 3/8". I plan to switch to 3/8" once I use up the 1/2" bits that I have. I think it is a good balance of feed speeds, strength, and kerf size. I use 2 flute bits. I ran a 3 flute bit once and while cutting through P-lam faced plywood my spindle fried and it cost me $10k. I was later told by the tech that you have to have a certain amount of HP per flute and my machine was underpowered. I think its something like 5 or 6 HP per flute. I would ask the machine manufacturer what they recommend. If you match your feeds and speeds to the chip load of the bit for the material you are cutting you will rarely break a bit. I think I have broken maybe 3 bits in 13 years of owning my machine and running it nonstop 40+ hours a week. I buy my bits from Centurion Tools. They are very reasonably priced and good quality. I tried most of the major brands and didn't see enough of an increase in bit life to account for the added cost.

2/28/24       #5: bits and sizes ...
Tom Gardiner

Be careful of taking feeds, speeds and bit recommendations without knowing the machines compared to what you have. There is no way I could manage 1000 ipm with my lighter machine so a three flute would actually be ruined being limited to my max feed.
I use a two flute 3/8" FS tools compression bit.

2/28/24       #6: bits and sizes ...
Josh Koschak

Check out Frost tooling. Guys are having incredible results. Nic Frost is very active on social media pages and is helping shops out everyday with questions.

2/28/24       #7: bits and sizes ...
Hen Bob

The Frost bits look about the same price as Freud, I've run plenty of 2 flute compression bits, Both Vortex & Freud with similar results from both.
As Tom said, don't just blindly take feed speeds and flute recommendations, if your unsure call Vortex, your tooling supplier, or whoever and tell them your machine and what your cutting. They will get your started in the right direction

2/28/24       #8: bits and sizes ...
Mike

Yes, that is true. If you have a little spindle or small machine, you need to know the power curve of your spindle so you know the horsepower at rpm levels. Then know your target chipload. That will tell you the proper feedspeeds and rpm. Vortex Tool has a nice calculator that is an app you can put on your phone. Or you can look up the formulas. I made a spreadsheet that calculates that 20 years ago for rpm, feed rate or chipload, but apps are convenient.

3/1/24       #9: bits and sizes ...
jerry Member

Instead of Vcarve Pro you may want to look at Cabinet Parts Pro I tried it and it is pretty easy to make a cut file and has a free trial

3/22/24       #10: bits and sizes ...
cheriLongsworth Member

Website: https://virmer.com/

For your first question, Vcarve Pro is a suitable choice for your needs in custom kitchens, particularly for generating toolpaths for box parts. It's advantageous if you already have friends familiar with the software, facilitating your transition. Its emphasis on 2D and 2.5D machining aligns well with your requirements, given that you don't require extensive 3D modeling capabilities.

Regarding your second question, for cutting 3/4" maple prefinished plywood, using compression bits is a wise choice due to their ability to produce clean edges with minimal tear-out. The most common sizes for this application are 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" in diameter. While larger bits are generally less prone to breakage, smaller ones produce less kerf waste. Starting with a mid-size option, like a 3/8" diameter bit, might offer a balance between strength and waste reduction. As for brands, starting with more affordable options as you learn is reasonable. Look for reputable brands such as Amana, Whiteside, or Freud, which offer quality bits at various price points.


Post a Response
  • Notify me of responses to this thread
  • Subscribe to email updates on this Forum
  • To receive email notification of additions to this forum thread,
    enter your name and email address, and then click the
    "Keep Me Posted" button below.

    Please Note: If you have posted a message or response,
    do not submit this request ... you are already signed up
    to receive notification!

    Your Name:
    E-Mail Address:
    Enter the correct numbers into the field below:
     

    Date of your Birth:



    Return to top of page

    Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

    FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors

    Become a Sponsor today!