Professional Finishing

You are not logged in. [ Login ] Why log in
(NOTE: Login is not required to post)

Post a Response
The staff at WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at any WOODWEB Forum. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk.
Your Name:
Your Website:
Email Address:
Subject: Re: Using spray-only stains on doors with profiles and projected trim.....

Message:

(read message guidelines).
Note: Do not use the below fields to advertise your business - only for links related to the discussion.
Thread Related Link URL:
Thread Related Link Title:
  To "point" to an image (picture) from another website, provide the URL (Web Address) of the file ( include ONE reference to http:// )
Thread Related Image URL:

Date of your Birth:

Upload a Thread Related File:
File Types: Image (gif-jpg-png-bmp), PDF, Sketchup, Video (mov avi wmv mpeg mpg mp4 ogg). (Image Upload Tips)

I have read the Site User Agreement and agree with the Terms

  <= Check to receive e-mail notification of responses

Message Thread:

Using spray-only stains on doors with profiles and projected trim.....

9/18/15       
Matt

There are times when experienced finishers need a little humbling, I suppose this is my time.

I've been a finisher for around a decade at this point, but have never needed to do a spray-only stain on doors with profiles and projected trim (ogees added around the center panel that project out, such as Conestoga's Verona).

I've done spray-only stains on flat, grain-matched plywood slabs that turned out just fine, so naively I assumed I could replicate this on these projected trim doors with ease. Nope.

What methods are helpful in getting the stain evenly across the door and the trim/profiles? A direct, straight spray patter (like you would do on plywood slabs) doesn't cut it, you get far too little material in the inner corners of the profiles. Sorta the opposite of a glazed look: light spots in the corner instead of dark spots.

I am applying the spray-only stain with a CA Technologies Jaguar HVLP, approx. 20psi. I have thinned the stain enough such that I must make to "foggy" passes to achieve the right color.

Today I used an airbrush (Binks Wren) to get the profiles right, and then just duked it out with the HVLP and a finesse touch.

If I tried that with the HVLP, even dialed in narrow and light, I'd still get a lot of overspray on the door parts/panel, and the profiles would be still hit-or-miss.

End of the day, my first batch of 24 doors looks good, but that's literally half the number I would have gotten if I had the option of a wiping stain.

So what is the trick to getting a decent, even spray pattern with projected mouldings and panel routes?

9/18/15       #2: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Matt

By the way, the spray-only stain is from Sherwin Williams. I do not recall the product name/number, but this is definitely NOT a wiping stain.

It's nearly identical to ML Campbell's "Amazing Stain" in composition and behavior.

9/18/15       #3: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Dave Edgerton  Member

you have to turn your pressure way way down so that the stain going on is just lightly falling on the door. almoat like a misty rain. too much air will make it look foggy and you will get funny appearance around the mouldings. also spray at 45 deg both ways to eliminate the shadow from the mouldings.

9/18/15       #4: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Micah Eckenfels Member

Website: http://www.mistymountainwoodworks.com

Dave is right on. You have to dial pressure way down, almost no atomizing air. The stain with spatter a bit but fill in to cover everything. Spray at an angle both top to bottom and bottom to top so that you get the dges of the mouldings with consecutive passes.

9/19/15       #5: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Alan

Spot on with using low pressure. I use a 2 gallon pressure pot with separate regulators for the fluid and air. That way I can get the right mix of fluid to air. Too much air and you "blast through" your fan pattern. You want the stain to kind of "float" into the corners. Not sure what you thinned the stain with. If you thinned it with a fast evaporating solvent, you might want to instead try a slower evaporating one. Not super slow, just slow enough that it gives the stain a chance to float into the corners before it drys. Ask SWP what to use. Some times they make spray stains out of P63 vinyl basecoats, in which could use some 305 reducer or a little MAK. If it is made with stain tints, a little Naptha 100 will slow it down a little.

9/20/15       #6: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Mike Fuson

I ditto Dave.
I use such low pressure I'm actually spraying droplets. It's like a slow sprinkling rain of stain.

9/20/15       #7: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Leo G

This is the main reason why spray stained doors are glazed. To hide the sins.

9/21/15       #8: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Matt

OK, thanks for the help there.

I wouldn't have guessed that such low pressure was the trick, but I will try that on the next job.

Thanks!

9/21/15       #9: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Paul Snyder  Member

Matt - you can practice using scraps by connecting 2 or 3 pieces of plywood to form a corner. This will simulate spraying stain inside a cabinet which is very similar to spraying a door - it's tricky to get the color down into the corner - especially a corner with 3 sides (where the bottom, side, and back intersect).

I'd start with 2 long cut-offs connected at 90 degrees and then experiment with the pressure and spray technique to get even color in the corner and blend it out onto the flat surfaces. Once you get that down, add a 3rd piece to form a 3-sided corner.

This practice should make it a lot easier to transition to doors with profiles.

Like Alan, I'm also a fan of using a pressure pot to control the atomization and fluid pressure separately. If it's a small job, I'll use a quart pot. If it's bigger, I may use a pot with a gallon can sitting inside. If it's bigger that that, you'll probably need a pot with an agitator to keep the pigment in the stain mixed. Likewise, you may need to stir the stain in the smaller pots if you don't use it quickly. Otherwise the pigments will settle and some items will be darker than others.

9/21/15       #10: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Tony

I ditto the low pressure. The higher pressure blows the stain out of the corners. FWIW, I started using Chem-Craft coatings about a year ago. Their Vivid spray stain is the best at avoiding this that I've used.

9/21/15       #11: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Matt

I do see the advantage of the pressure pots, now that you mention it. The flow rates on a gravity feed HVLP tend to vary as the cup empties out.

9/22/15       #12: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Mike Fuson

By the way Matt, I spray Mohawk ngr dye stain. I've been getting great penetration and adhesion.

10/22/15       #13: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
Shane

another method is to reduce your stain significantly more with solvent so you can spray the stain a little on the wet side... This way your not going to dark too fast... just have to make multiple passes on the door but it sure comes out a lot more even. Most people don't have their sprays stain reduced enough and they end up jacking up the air pressure or moving too fast because the color is getting there too quickly...

12/31/15       #14: Using spray-only stains on doors wi ...
SteveG

I have been using Spray Only stains for many years on Arch. woodworking and furniture.both seating and casegoods with many inside corners,profiles etc. low air pressure and proper reduction is paramount.
you will want to use a slow evaporating solvent and spray just damp enough to allow even penetration never spray too dry as you will not develop the grain and would give the cloudy effect your getting.
I am a big fan of the Ilva brand stain vehicle for the base reducer as you can use is straight or mix with other solvents to suit your needs.
Under low pressure apply stain just damp to corners first,then apply to rest of the piece.keeping the "just damp" technique .
practice first.With more experience you will be able to mix and adjust to your varying needs..Different woods,pieces,sizes.etc.
Just make sure to keep the Wet Edge up throughout your application.
Believe me this technique will make you a better sprayer overall... good luck.

 

Buy & Sell Exchanges | Forums | Galleries | Site Map

FORUM GUIDELINES: Please review the guidelines below before posting at WOODWEB's Interactive Message Boards (return to top)

  • WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.
  • Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.
  • A valid email return address must be included with each message.
  • Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.
  • Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.
  • "Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.
  • Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.
  • Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.
  • Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.
  • Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.
  • Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.
  • Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.
  • Comments, questions, or criticisms regarding Forum policies should be directed to WOODWEB's Systems Administrator
    (return to top).

    Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

    You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

    WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

    Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

    Libel:   Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

    Improper Decorum:   Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

    Advertising:   The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

    Repeated Forum Abuse: Forum participants who repeatedly fail to follow WOODWEB's Forum Guidelines may encounter difficulty when attempting to post messages.

    There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

    The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)


  • Forum Posting Help
    Your Name The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).
    Your Website Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    E-Mail Address Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)
    Subject Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)
    Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Thread Related File Uploads Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .MP4 (Image Upload Tips)   If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)
    Sponsors
    • EX-FACTORY
      Importer and Dealer of New and Used Woodworking Machinery
    • Apollo Sprayers Inc.
      High Volume Low Pressure Spray Systems
    • Carter Products
      Band Saw Guides, Blades, Wheels, Tires, Line Lasers and 2D Projectors, Wide Belt Sanding Accessories, Vacuum Holding Systems and More
    • Unique Machine & Tool
      Industrial Machinery for Door and Drawer Production
    • Simantech
      New & Used Machinery, Supplies, Tooling, Parts, and Abrasive Products
    • Supergrit Abrasives
      Industrial Quality Abrasives Manufactured by Leading US and Foreign Companies
    • SAMES KREMLIN formerly EXEL North America
      Precision Spraying Solutions From Pumps To Complete Application Systems-Design and Manufacture of Process Equipment Including Airspray, Airmix, Airless, Rexson Dispense, Electrostatic and Powder Coat

    Become a Sponsor today!