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Subject: Re: Air compressor recomendation

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Message Thread:

Air compressor recomendation

7/26/16       
Michael Foscone  Member

Hello fellow finishers,
I am setting up a small finishing shop at my house in a 20x40' stand alone building, at my work place I have an 80 three phase that work8well, my question is can I get by with just a 30 gal single phase, only one person will be spraying, mostly cv, polyps and polyester, thanks for your help

7/26/16       #2: Air compressor recomendation ...
RobertJ

RECOMMENDATION (sp) is no for the 30 gallon tank.

7/26/16       #4: Air compressor recomendation ...
Michael Foscone  Member

Why no to the 30 gal
I've used them on job sites with no problem, care to elaborate?

7/26/16       #5: Air compressor recomendation ...
RobertJ

What is your Gun or Pump cfm requirement?

Most guns will require at least 10cfm to operate.....most will need above 12/13, Sata or Iwata guns need more for continuous delivery. As such, more CFM is better. What is the horsepower of the 30 gallon compressor?

7/26/16       #6: Air compressor recomendation ...
Michael Foscone  Member

Thanks Robert I know next to nothing about the technical side of finishing,. Ivdont currently own a 30 gal, just used one in the past,
My guns are a couple of bunks 2001 series and above and 4 SATA
I spray everything in my big shop
Laq,CV,Water based poly, and polyester
Please tell me min require compressor to handle the above
Ty

7/26/16       #7: Air compressor recomendation ...
kevin

rotary screw

7/26/16       #8: Air compressor recomendation ...
Michael Foscone  Member

And what is a rotary screw?

7/26/16       #9: Air compressor recomendation ...
Nick

Sata pressure feed rp and hvlp spray guns use a lot of air;. a 5 hp 17cfm 80 gallon tank compressor either 3 or single phase would be the minimum size needed to avoid the nonstop running of your compressor when spraying any job beyond a couple a couple of pieces.
if you need to have a single phase 220-240 volt, check your local craigslist as good used shop compressors can often be had cheap.

7/26/16       #10: Air compressor recomendation ...
rich c.

No on the 30 gallon unless you are doing small projects. Air temp will go too high in an overworked compressor and then you get moisture issues. There are a lot more important qualifiers to an air compressor than tank size and electrical phases. Plenty of research ahead for you. Hope you have good neighbors since you will be straining relationships when you pump out the odor! Expect a visit from the fire department, then you'll need an upgrade to spray booth and proper storage cabinet as well. Also check with your insurance agent, they often don't like businesses at home, especially ones using and storing solvent based finishes.

7/26/16       #11: Air compressor recomendation ...
Bart

This has come up in the past. I have a 5hp 220v Curtis with only a 23gallon tank. It all comes down to capacity of your pump/HP. The Curtis puts out 12.6cfm @ 90lbs. It recharges on the fly while spraying in 45seconds. The only time it ever got hot was when I had a leaky hose and it ran all night when I forgot to turn it off. But it still keeps pumping. I've also over the years gone to more efficient guns. My two main guns a gravity which sips 6cfms @ 29lbs and a pressure gun that uses 5-9cfm at 30lbs. The pressure gun pumps clears and pigmented finish like a fire hose. The 5hp I tell you it's a mini beast. Not really that portable unless you have a friend our two around. I think they've discontinued it though. I could only find a 2hp/20gallon @ 5.5cfm @90lbs. Which if you have the right gear would work.

cheers

7/26/16       #12: Air compressor recomendation ...
Bart

Just a follow up on what Nick was saying about the odor etc... You should probably think really hard about going to WB. No smell no problems.

7/26/16       #13: Air compressor recomendation ...
Nick

Sata 3000k hvip consumes just shy of 20cfm and the Sata rp just over 15cfm. like somebody said you don't need a big tank (it helps) but you will need a pump that can puts out the amount of air that's close to what your guns consume, especially if your tank is small.

7/26/16       #14: Air compressor recomendation ...
Adam

Nick is correct.

I had that size system and used high transfer guns like the ones Michael mentioned.

It is the bare minimum. The last thing you want is to run out of air when spraying.

Use 3/8" hose and 3/4" minimum air lines.

7/26/16       #15: Air compressor recomendation ...
Nick

add to the larger diameter lines, high flow connectors...using these high volume connectors make a noticable difference in your hvlp, rp, or lvlp spray gun performance.

7/26/16       #16: Air compressor recomendation ...
Michael Foscone  Member

Greatly appreciate all the help.
God Bless you all
Michael

7/26/16       #17: Air compressor recomendation ...
Bart

Re: Line and connector size. I switched to all 3/8 fittings and hose thinking I could get more volume but the 4 way fitting outlet "at" the compressor is still only 1/4 and is factory installed and incorporated with the regulator, tank gauge and relief valve. So unless your outlet is 3/8 or larger you'll have replace it or tap/drill it out to 3/8 or you'll just be dragging around bigger hoses and fittings like me.

7/27/16       #18: Air compressor recomendation ...
Leo G

Get an AAA pump and you can get by with something that can produce 5 CFM at 90PSI

7/28/16       #19: Air compressor recomendation ...
RobertJ

Leo has the correct answer to getting by with a smaller compressor.

7/28/16       #20: Air compressor recomendation ...
Nick

A AAA is a good answer but AAA's aren't so good at spraying stains, dyes and toners. But the answer to that problem is (like was mentioned before) a Asturo lvlp spray gun(s). I have one of their pressure feed guns for site-work that I use with a 2.5 gallon, 6.5 cfm, 110 volt compressor and it works great. They're not built like a tank like a Sata or a Mach 1 but with a couple of them and a AAA you could do top quality work using a 110 volt compressor...albeit a big 110 volt compressor.

7/28/16       #21: Air compressor recomendation ...
Nick

whoops, that's a 5.2 gallon not 2.5.

7/29/16       #22: Air compressor recomendation ...
chris

this will give you a few ideas about HP and tank size.
A rotary screw compressor is a different style using a screw type vain compared to a piston style. They are more efficient and are way quiter but they cost more.

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/

7/31/16       #23: Air compressor recomendation ...
Gerry

I think the AAA is a good option but if that is not an option another way to do it is with 2 compressors. One is set to start a little lower psi than the other so if the first one starts and the psi continues to drop to the setting of the second one it then starts. They are piped together so they use both tanks to increase volume.

There is a switch setup the alternates the compressor that starts so you get even usage. This is not completely necessary. I think it is called duplex switching?

8/12/16       #24: Air compressor recomendation ...
DannyB Member

AAA is a great option.

However, i'll be contrarian here.

You can get away with single phase and a 30 gallon tank *if* you use the right compressor.

I say this because I did it for many years.

Single phase, 5 HP compressor:

http://www.powerexinc.com/images/PWX/documents/MANUALS/188613_1211_
WEB.PDF

15.2CFM@100psi (IE plenty for the 15CFM@*40*psi guns). Rated for 100% continuous duty, discharge temp is ambient + 30 degrees.
Completely oil-free.
It's also 46 decibels, and it's pretty much the quietest thing i own.

You could also use the right type of rotary screw compressor, as someone said.

These types of compressors are meant for continuous duty (in fact, the rotary screws often have maintenance issues if you have too *low* a duty cycle)
You would never be able to use a piston compressor, as someone said, it will get too high of temperature because it's not meant for a duty cycle like that. You will destroy it pretty quickly.

The one problem you have with single phase in any case is the start/stop cycle, not the temperature.

A lot of the single phase rotary screws will unload the compressor but keep the motor going, because 5HP single phase motors don't really like large numbers of start/stop an hour.

The scroll manual above even says this, and basically says "use whatever it takes to limit start/stop to 10 an hour". I did fine with a 30 gallon tank, though they recommend 60.

You could also just make it unload like the rotary screws, etc.

 

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