Message Thread:
Sher-Clear troubles
8/7/18
I've been using Sher-Clear from Sherwin Williams daily for 6 years. It's always proved itself to be a great WB finish. Until recently that is. For the last several months, the cans have been coming with rust in them. I ordered a case from my local store last week, and today I went over to grab it. I've learned to open the cans in the store because I've been seeing this rust issue pretty regularly for the last several months. 2 of the 4 cans had a significant amount of rust in them. The other 2 cans had some rust, but I was pretty desperate to get some finish on my signs, so I took them back to the shop. I've attached a picture of one of the cans here. Like I said, I've been spraying it for quite a while, so I'm very familiar with how it should look. This sprayed out horribly bad. Probably the worst it's been in a while, and it's been pretty bad. It almost has a dirty, oily look to it, and there are a million pinholes. I've been beating my head against the wall for months now trying to solve this thing. This is before I realized the cans were rusty. My painter would just pour it into the gun, and I guess he never noticed. Anyway, one day I was in there, and I noticed huge gobs of rust in the can. I've rejected 10 cans so far, and the ones I've accepted are pretty bad. This batch I got today was canned on May 1st of this year, so 3 months old. Anybody else seeing this? I tried a couple of other products. General Finishes 450 isn't bad, but it's really not as good as a good can of Sher Clear. It doesn't build as much, and it seems to take longer to fully set up. I have to ship these signs, and the 450 gave me troubles when I wrapped them to ship. Sher Clear has never had that problem. I have some EM9300 coming from Target Coatings, so I'm really hoping that's going to be a good replacement for Sher Clear. Anybody have any experience with the 2 for a comparison or have any other recommedations? Sorry for the long post, but I'm losing sleep over this. Oh, also notice in the picture the modeling look of the interior gold color of the can. On a good can, that gold is pristine. This must be some sort of oxidation as well. Whatever is happening inside these cans is not good.
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8/7/18 #2: Sher-Clear troubles ...
I've never used Sher Clear, but I've used both EM-9300 and Exterior 450. 450 sprayed easier for me, but it stays soft a long time and never gets as hard as EM-9300 does right away. If the EM-9300 sprays well for you I think you'll be pleased with how it looks and performs. As a bonus, they package it in plastic pails so rust will never be an issue.
John
8/8/18 #3: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Yeah, I liked the 450, but the longer set times is a deal breaker for what I'm doing. I tried another product yesterday from Modern Masters called Masterclear, and that is showing promise. It was at least as hard as SherClear this morning, and looked great. So now, I'll do my packing paper test, and if it passes, at least I'll be moving forward with a solution. The EM9300 is coming tomorrow or Friday, so I'll keep you posted with my thoughts on that. I really hope Sherwin Williams figures the SherClear out, because when it's good, it's REALLY good... but this rust issue is messing with the chemistry I think. It's the only thing that makes sense.
8/8/18 #4: Sher-Clear troubles ...
More likely the chemistry is what caused the cans to rust, rather than the other way around. In any case, if it's been going on this long it doesn't sound like they are motivated to fix the problem so finding an alternative is the best option. You can always go back to it if they do fix it.
Can you buy the SW product in 5 gal plastic pails? If rust is what's causing the problem (which I doubt but I'm often wrong) that would eliminate the problem.
John
8/8/18 #5: Sher-Clear troubles ...
This is the wrong container to put waterborne finishes into. Everyone else has moved to plastic for this reason.
8/8/18 #6: Sher-Clear troubles ...
If it's not the rust that's causing the problem, then it has to be their chemistry. I had a bad gallon once a few years ago, but that one was clearly bad when I opened the can and looked at it. It's usually pretty white and this gallon was noticibly blueish. It was also very watery. I sprayed it anyway on a test piece just to see, and it was total garbage. I brought it back and got another gallon and it was back to normal. So it is possible for them to screw up a batch.
8/8/18 #7: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Target Coatings is the only company I have bought WB finishes from packaging their products in one gallon plastic pails. GF, Lenmar, and SW do not, but I sure wish they did.
John
8/9/18 #8: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Ditto
8/9/18 #9: Sher-Clear troubles ...
if you have access to commercial Sherwin products then you should use their Sayerlack waterbornes... night and day difference in quality
8/9/18 #10: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Shane is correct. The sayerlack wb is awesome stuff. We go thru about 180 gallons a week of it.
Ask your Sherwin Sales Rep for the Sayerlack Hydroplus
8/10/18 #11: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Is Sayerlack Hydroplus an exterior finish?
8/10/18 #12: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Sayerlack's website is almost unusable on my computer... Might just be me, but it's painful. I see the products on Sherwin's site, but from what I can gather, Hydroplus is an interior finish. But it seems like they do make an exterior finish, but I can't get to it on the Sayerlack site. I'll put a call into my local Sherwin commercial store.. I feel like I'm just thinking out loud here guys. Sorry.
8/10/18 #13: Sher-Clear troubles ...
The Sayerlack Data is not available unless Sherwin sets you up with a username password.... Call a Sherwin product finishes division with any questions and they can email you technical data.. a retail contractor/paint store will not be a good source of information.
8/10/18 #14: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Thank you Shane and Kevin for that heads up
8/10/18 #15: Sher-Clear troubles ...
I have some EM9300 coming today from Target. Thanks John for that tip. I'll let you know how I make out. This board is unreal. I wish I knew it existed 6 years ago when I was banging my head against the wall trying to figure this stuff out. The finishing world is a big mystery if you don't know much about it. If you're not a chemistry major, it's a shot in the dark of what works or not. On top of that, trying to figure out a problem with your finish... like why it's getting fish eyes, or orange peel, or solvant pop, or micro bubbles is time consuming and frustrating and expesive... This site is at the top of my favorites now! Thanks to everyone who takes the time to chime in.
8/14/18 #16: Sher-Clear troubles ...
I've had the EM9300 for a couple days now and it checks all the boxes. Great looking, cures fast and hard, I can ship it quickly without worrying about the finish getting messed up, sands easily between coats, sprays easily. It's really a 10 so far. It's what Sher-Clear USED to be when I first started using it. Lately here, it's turned into a pile of garbage. So, thanks to everyone here again. You have no idea how much you bailed me out.
8/16/18 #17: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Sayerlack... The stuff is awesome. Comes in plastic 5 gallon buckets.
I get it shipped from Bates Industrial Coatings.
8/1/21 #18: Sher-Clear troubles ...
Website: http://GravityProbe.org
In what year did this discussion take place?
Does the problem persist into August 2021 (now)?
8/19/21 #19: Sher-Clear troubles ...
The problem I'm having now is I can't get it. I haven't been able to get it for months now. My local store isn't giving any info on when it will be available again.
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