Message Thread:
Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayerlack?
4/21/21
We are trying to slowly make the full conversion to WB finishes and get good systems in place before we are forced to. After trying a few different products, we are very happy with Sayerlack and have been spraying a fair amount of it for a over a year now. While I actually prefer the "WB look" on lighter woods (maple, beech, white oak, etc), it still looks pretty dead to me on the darker woods (walnut, cherry, etc). Maybe I'm just used to the old solvent look and can't get past it, but my clients are saying the same thing when I show them samples of each. So, it doesn't really matter what my opinion is anyway.
We have been discussing coming up with different "formulas" of dye additive (UTC's, transtint) for each wood, but my finisher recalled using the Hydrocote Amber Additive in WB's awhile ago and achieving the look more or less universally.
So, anyone used the Amber Additive with Sayerlack and had any luck? or any problems?...
4/21/21 #2: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
I don't know about hydrocotes amber but I've been adding orange dye to my GF wb clears for years. And I won't even show a client a straight "clear" on cherry or walnut. I always throw on a diluted GF light brown dye stain for a "clear" topped with the ever so slightly orange tinted wb clear. Otherwise you get the plastic-y look of wb.
my 2cts
4/21/21 #3: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
i love sayerlack, and completely agree with your assessment of it on lighter and darker woods. not sure that my approach will work for you, but what i do with darker woods is use seal-a-cell to pop the wood, then shoot sayerlack over it. yes, you need to let it dry, but it absolutely sticks, and looks amazing. seal-a-cell will pop like oil, but cure and soak in. and, you can dry it faster with forced air, so a good fan and a little patience and you'll get great results.
4/22/21 #4: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
i have used a light coat of dewaxed shellac to get a solvent look under WB. It drys fast and sands nice.
nicko
4/22/21 #5: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
yeah the key here is "light." i had a nightmare of a time with a job once where i put too much shellac on under the sayerlack, and it crazed horribly. i think with a light spit coat you'd be fine, and it's certainly faster than seal-a-cell, but for me, after that experience, i'll stick with what i know works.
4/22/21 #6: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Did you use shellac from flakes or seal coat shellac? I’ve done it successfully with both but it’s my understanding that the preservatives in seal coat could cause crazing. That said I never had a problem with a spit coat of seal coat.
Nicko
4/22/21 #7: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Yes David, your thread about the crazing problem made me pretty nervous. Our initial plan was to use the Sealcoat first, but there's some healthy debate on that thread about whether that's a good idea or not.
4/22/21 #8: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
i used sealcoat when i had the crazing issue. and, i called them and talked to a chemist, and he told me that there's absolutely nothing added, no preservatives, etc. and that the formula hasn't changed for decades. said that the sayerlack was just too strong for the shellac... when i went heavy. just go light, and you'll be fine. or, use seal-a-cell and give it a few days to dry, and you'll absolutely be fine.
4/22/21 #9: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com
The shellac will more than likely cause crazing if you actually put enough on to get any color. amber dye will work. the best product ive seen for color enhancement is magnamax H2O. Still never the same as oil...
4/22/21 #10: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
jonathan - good point, the magnamax is very amber. it's like GF endurovar. personally, i don't like it as much as the sayerlack - i think the sayerlack has a more refined look. but you're right, it's definitely an option, and that stuff is very, very tough.
4/23/21 #11: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Are you guys using Sayerlack or Magnamax h20 on kitchens? How do they compare to Target Em7000? I've noticed that the Em7000, even with the crosslinker, softens significantly when exposed to alcohol or cleaners like 409. Do Sayerlack and or Magnamax have similar issues?
4/24/21 #12: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
phil, i'm yet to use magnamax on any casework - my partner used it on some a while back, and i didn't love the look, so i'm sticking with sayerlack. on the number of kitchens i've done with sayerlack, i've never heard of, or seen any issues at all with the finish.
4/27/21 #13: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com
Ive used enduovar the magnamax H2O a few times. as David mentioned its tough stuff, ambers heavily,even more so than endurovar, or hybrivar from target, but doesn't necessarily dazzle the eye. It also has no "hang" so spraying vertically is a pain. the recommendation for sayerlac is a good one, but I cant get it in my area. Chemcraft Aqualux uniclear has been a really good choice for me. Has the clarity of the newer style sayerlac and some others. makes Target and GF look a little lifeless in comparison and it is pre catalyzed. tough stuff. Has an AWI TR3 rating. I get it through Wurth. They also sell the Magnamaxh20 and Milesi 2K
4/27/21 #14: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
hey jonathan, thanks for this. i'm looking at the chemcraft site - which waterborne topcoat specifically would you recommend trying as a test? they have quite a few.
thanks!
--- dz
4/28/21 #15: Hydrocote Amber Additive with Sayer ...
Website: http://www.mahnkencabinets.com
The Uniclear is what I use. I haven't even tried the other clears, and I think you will find that many suppliers wont stock many of the others. The Aquaprime and Aquaset are really tough products also, but they dont have great flow, so AA or Airless are best with those.
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